The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[fightoffyour]

On 27/11/2016 at 12:22, brommy said:

Jack has stopped falling over quite so easily outside of the box, is getting on with the game quicker when the referee doesn't award a fowl and is pressing the opposition more when he's not got the ball. All big improvements to his game. As unspectacular as it may have been to most, I particularly enjoyed him running at the Cardiff player who was lining up a long pass forward in the last few minutes of yesterday's game. Jack started 20 yards away and was never likely to be able to tackle the player before the pass was played. The Cardiff player saw Jack running at him and played a hurried pass out of play and slipped over in the process. Impressive commitment from Jack so late in the game.

It's good to see Jack not chicken out of the Championship fight.

[PaulC]

I think he would have started against Leeds if he had of been 100% well. Bruce is also managing him sensibly. Our most creative player in a team which doesn't have that much creativity really.  

[VillaCas]

On 05/12/2016 at 11:06, DCJonah said:

In the last game he started he won a penalty. Against Brighton when he came on he caused endless problems. And using his overall appearances as a criticism is daft, how many of those were short sub appearances. 

Seems a strange time to start criticising him just as he's starting to do the things you're criticising him for. 

Your final sentence doesn't make sense

Secondly, using his overall apperances is not daft, clearly it is the most representative way to assess his contribution. What would be daft is looking at his last game and trying to draw inferences just from that. Sadly you don't get any points from "causing endless problems" unless that leads to putting the ball in the net

Grealish has the potential to become a very good player but he is nowhere near being consistent or reliable enough to be considered one yet. There is a long long way to go. The point in my original post was that players like Grealish get a lot of credit for producing passages of play that look impressive but ulimately fail to deliver - whether some of his apperances are as sub or not, for a player who does not offer too much without the ball,  less than one goal every 20 appearances and less than one assist in every ten is not good enough return.

He might get there, he might not - I obviously hope he does. To get lauded for average performances against very average teams is probably not the kind of encouragement that someone with Jack's apparent personality needs in my opinion.  He really needs to knuckle down and start delivering real contribution not showreel feints and mazy runs

[TRO]

On 12/4/2016 at 20:03, VillaCas said:

If anyone has ever read the 'Moneyball' book, Grealish is the exact opposite of what teams would be looking for.

He looks for all the world like he is influencing the game but the overwhelming majority of his contributions come in non-threatening areas of the pitch.

I know Jack appears to be having a renaissance at the moment and opinion of him is high but 3 goals and 6 assists in 61 games is very poor return.

He needs to make much more impact and contribution - the odd feint or mazy run looks good but ultimately delivers nothing

On the plus side, he at least looks like he's trying at the moment

I too am dubious and agree with your appraisal.

Jack is exciting, but equally still goes to ground easily.....I am unsure if Steve can get the finished article from him,but, it does make a difference when the blend is right.

I am pleased with is improved attitude, but...... we will see.

ps For me to have Westwood, Grealish and Gardner in the same side .....spells lightweight.

Edited December 7, 2016 by TRO

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Your final sentence doesn't make sense

Secondly, using his overall apperances is not daft, clearly it is the most representative way to assess his contribution. What would be daft is looking at his last game and trying to draw inferences just from that. Sadly you don't get any points from "causing endless problems" unless that leads to putting the ball in the net

Grealish has the potential to become a very good player but he is nowhere near being consistent or reliable enough to be considered one yet. There is a long long way to go. The point in my original post was that players like Grealish get a lot of credit for producing passages of play that look impressive but ulimately fail to deliver - whether some of his apperances are as sub or not, for a player who does not offer too much without the ball,  less than one goal every 20 appearances and less than one assist in every ten is not good enough return.

He might get there, he might not - I obviously hope he does. To get lauded for average performances against very average teams is probably not the kind of encouragement that someone with Jack's apparent personality needs in my opinion.  He really needs to knuckle down and start delivering real contribution not showreel feints and mazy runs

I don't mean this to be offensive, but have you watched many of our games this season?

He has not simply been contributing 'showreel feints' and 'mazy runs'. 

[Grasshopper]

One cant expect Jack to be our savior at his age.

He spent his time in the 1st team playing with shit players selected by shit managers

Now that SB has organised us at the back, Jack is still playing like an individual, as is Ayew, Adomah & Kodjia.

our forward line is not cohesive (yet) and such a young talent needs time to find out when to dribble, lay off, pass, cross or shoot.

Our "Team-player" McC is not playing and our goals are coming from the occasional click (Amavi's run...) or individual play.

they, JG JA Mc AA & JK, need time and work (preferably a pre-season) to find out how to click and SB, who clicks with who.

I cant believe how naive and stupid RDM was to not have a plan of How, Where or who should be playing.

Bruce has come into a club with no direction and the forwards have been hung out to dry with expectancy that has no chance or coming to fruition.

Maybe over a longer time period SB can influence this problem, but it would have been sooooooo much easier in a pre-season.

It could be that so much of training time is spent on set-ups and shape that actual transition play or forwards movement cannot be addressed atm.

I know one thing. Everytime any of Ayew, JG, Adomah or Kodjia get the ball I always get the feeling that something might happen

I NEVER get the feeling that a great passage of play is coming resulting with a goal

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

One cant expect Jack to be our savior at his age.

He spent his time in the 1st team playing with shit players selected by shit managers

Now that SB has organised us at the back, Jack is still playing like an individual, as is Ayew, Adomah & Kodjia.

our forward line is not cohesive (yet) and such a young talent needs time to find out when to dribble, lay off, pass, cross or shoot.

Our "Team-player" McC is not playing and our goals are coming from the occasional click (Amavi's run...) or individual play.

they, JG JA Mc AA & JK, need time and work (preferably a pre-season) to find out how to click and SB, who clicks with who.

I cant believe how naive and stupid RDM was to not have a plan of How, Where or who should be playing.

Bruce has come into a club with no direction and the forwards have been hung out to dry with expectancy that has no chance or coming to fruition.

Maybe over a longer time period SB can influence this problem, but it would have been sooooooo much easier in a pre-season.

It could be that so much of training time is spent on set-ups and shape that actual transition play or forwards movement cannot be addressed atm.

I know one thing. Everytime any of Ayew, JG, Adomah or Kodjia get the ball I always get the feeling that something might happen

I NEVER get the feeling that a great passage of play is coming resulting with a goal

Well GH.....Andy Gray, Brian Little and Gary Shaw was all under 20.....so was Trevor Francis at 16.

If he is going to be built up....he has to live with it.

However, I will concede he hasn't got the strength behind him.

Edited December 7, 2016 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Well GH.....Andy Gray, Brian Little and Gary Shaw was all under 20.....so was Trevor Francis at 16.

If he is going to be built up....he has to live with it.

However, I will concede he hasn't got the strength behind him.

correct.

But I think there's a difference in "The Physical game" of old over now.

Yore - Players were kicked and hacked down. Skillfull players could avoid/skip tackles.

Yonder - players are shoved, blocked off and Bulldozzered down nowadays, and the slight built players just have to take the hit. Skill has less if a chance without the build

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

correct.

But I think there's a difference in "The Physical game" of old over now.

Yore - Players were kicked and hacked down. Skillfull players could avoid/skip tackles.

Yonder - players are shoved, blocked off and Bulldozzered down nowadays, and the slight built players just have to take the hit. Skill has less if a chance without the build

I totally and utterly agree with that......not enough consideration for the physical side, when appraising our team IMO. or in fact buying players.

Fortunately for us SB has already acknowledged the above and said it is of paramount importance to him.

Edited December 8, 2016 by TRO

[VillaCas]

19 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't mean this to be offensive, but have you watched many of our games this season?

He has not simply been contributing 'showreel feints' and 'mazy runs'. 

A goal less than every 20 games, an assist less than every 10 games and very little contribution without the ball - what do you think I am missing?

We are in a very poor league in which, to live up to the hype, he should be bossing

[villa4europe]

10 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

A goal less than every 20 games, an assist less than every 10 games and very little contribution without the ball - what do you think I am missing?

We are in a very poor league in which, to live up to the hype, he should be bossing

not that simple though is it? look at the last 3/4 games and cameos when the penny has finally dropped that he's a central midfielder rather than a left winger, his performance level has picked up, dont see how anyone can argue that, he's also bossed a couple of games in the middle for england where hes played 6 games and has 2 goals and i think 4 assists, but yeah its definitely all jack and not us...

[bannedfromHandV]

18 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

A goal less than every 20 games, an assist less than every 10 games and very little contribution without the ball - what do you think I am missing?

We are in a very poor league in which, to live up to the hype, he should be bossing

We are not in a "very poor" league.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that the Championship is stronger than many top level divisions across Europe.

[wilko154]

In some ways its our fault that he isn't living up the hype, I think the 'Super Jack Grealish' chants have gone to his head a bit and he almost thinks he's the best player in our side.

For a number 10 or winger one goal in 20 games or an assist every 10 games is pretty poor...

No doubt about it though, the last 2-3 games he has started to show the promise he had when he initially broke into the team under Sherwood.

If we can sort a position in the first team for him to have a run of consecutive games over Christmas we will hopefully start to see the best of him. Then come January with an improved midfield behind him he will step up to the level he's currently playing at for the England U21s

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

A goal less than every 20 games, an assist less than every 10 games and very little contribution without the ball - what do you think I am missing?

We are in a very poor league in which, to live up to the hype, he should be bossing

Not sure why you're focusing on his whole career. Bit part sub appearances as a 17 year old have little to do with right now. 

This year he's made 14 appearances, 7 of those being full games. Scored 2, got 1 assist and crested more chances than all but 2 players in our squad. 

I don't think that's too bad. Especially as others have said, since Bruce has played him central most of our good play has come through him when he's on the pitch. 

 

[lapal_fan]

The stats don't look great.  But I think Jack suffers from Carrick syndrome, in that whilst he doesn't get the assist or the goal, he's often an intrinsic part of the move which created the goal.  There isn't really a stat for that. 

And whilst he doesn't get those plaudits, what he does offer is something which a lot of players don't have, and that's the ability to make his own space.  That's a really invaluable facet to have.  Ozil lite almost, high praise indeed, but the way he glides, often looks unfazed despite his slight physique and plays at his own pace reminds me of him.

He just needs games, and this is a great league for him to get them in.  He'll keep improving, he'll get better, he'll start to add bits to his game.  I noticed he's begun shooting more often, which was one criticism for example.  Should we keep hold of him for a couple of years, I think we'll really begin to reap the rewards when he gets into his mid-20s.

Him playing for the U21's is also really good for his development.

We just need to give him time.  It'll click at some point.  

Edited December 8, 2016 by lapal_fan

[blandy]

4 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

whilst he doesn't get the assist or the goal, he's often an intrinsic part of the move which created the goal.  There isn't really a stat for that. 

Brilliant observation. And on top of that, when a team has a "danger player"  for whom the opposition tends to make special plans it almost always means that other players are effectively given more freedom/less attention. Just by playing these types of players it can bring benefit to the team, even if they don't appear to do that much in a particular game.

[handsworthvilla]

18 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

correct.

But I think there's a difference in "The Physical game" of old over now.

Yore - Players were kicked and hacked down. Skillfull players could avoid/skip tackles.

Yonder - players are shoved, blocked off and Bulldozzered down nowadays, and the slight built players just have to take the hit. Skill has less if a chance without the build

I think the slighter build players are actually experiencing something of a renaissance in recent years. In the 90s youth football in england was essentially reduced to selecting the fastest, strongest & tallest players at a young age and developing them from there.  Nowadays there is so much more emphasis on technique, skill and touch than previously, there is a lot more opportunity for slighter/skillful players to come through.  This has somewhat been driven by the Barca/Spain revolution of smaller players (messi, xavi, iniesta) 

Although it is one of the big cliche's in english football that when the going is tough managers will always revert back to physically strong players as they are apparently more up for the fight and can be relied on in big 6 point "battles". 

I'm heavily biased as a smaller player myself but I've always been annoyed at seeing technically gifted players (e.g Carles Gil) be cast aside by fans/managers because of doubts over physicality when some of the most elite players are slight/small (you never hear any complaints about David Silva getting pushed off the ball). I wonder if fans of teams in Spain are as obsessed about physical strength as we seen to be in the premier league. 

That being said, I don't really think its an issue with Jack. He's a bloody unit. The size of his legs are unreal. The reason he gets chopped down is because he moves the ball and is feet so quickly, not to do with his size. 

[rodders0223]

He has won at least two penalties so that is two "assists" right there.

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, handsworthvilla said:

I think the slighter build players are actually experiencing something of a renaissance in recent years. In the 90s youth football in england was essentially reduced to selecting the fastest, strongest & tallest players at a young age and developing them from there.  Nowadays there is so much more emphasis on technique, skill and touch than previously, there is a lot more opportunity for slighter/skillful players to come through.  This has somewhat been driven by the Barca/Spain revolution of smaller players (messi, xavi, iniesta) 

Although it is one of the big cliche's in english football that when the going is tough managers will always revert back to physically strong players as they are apparently more up for the fight and can be relied on in big 6 point "battles". 

I'm heavily biased as a smaller player myself but I've always been annoyed at seeing technically gifted players (e.g Carles Gil) be cast aside by fans/managers because of doubts over physicality when some of the most elite players are slight/small (you never hear any complaints about David Silva getting pushed off the ball). I wonder if fans of teams in Spain are as obsessed about physical strength as we seen to be in the premier league. 

That being said, I don't really think its an issue with Jack. He's a bloody unit. The size of his legs are unreal. The reason he gets chopped down is because he moves the ball and is feet so quickly, not to do with his size. 

I think the emphesis on Jack is because he's "English" and came through our system.

players like Gil are bought, tried & sold. "Take a chance on a foreigner" if you like. It's impersonal so it can come off and players like "Bergkamp" become legends at Arsenal. or a Chevchenko becomes a forgotten flop at Chelsea.

If you really think about the current "English" players in the PL and at National level. IMHO there is only Adam Lalana & Daniel Sturridge (maybe Sterling too) who really have the skill/touch/ball control of a "foreign" would be legend. the rest really are poor on technique (consistantly).

It's almost frightening to suggest that Jack has the skill/touch/balance and ball control that no English player in the Ch has and very few in the PL (who are English) have.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Grasshopper

[OutByEaster?]

Is Grealish that slight?