heffoman Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 6 hours ago, sne said: Oh boy, so, so many small and big changes from the story in the books in the first ep of Wheel of Time. They've made major changes to every one of the major characters and their backgrounds, hopefully they have their reasons for doing this which will be explained further down the series. Here's hoping it's not a The Last Jedi scenario where they've just set out to destroy the original story on purpose. Wasn't terrible, obviously I'm not a fan of the changes but non book readers won't care. Some of the Trollocks looked dreadful, the editing was poor and yeah, it's not terrible so far. 6.5/10 maybe. About 11.700 book pages left to adapt so a bit early to draw any big conclusions I just watched the first episode and as someone who loves the books and was only listening to the first one on audiobook last week it’s a dumpster fire. Some of the decisions they have made are just baffling. The changes you have made to the major character just why? Of all characters as well. It might appeal to non book readers but for a lot of readers this will be a huge disappointment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted November 20, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2021 Just finished Dark. And I thought Doctor Who was hard to follow.. Overall a very good show, really clever, but had a few storylines that kind of went nowhere, a few characters that were built up as huge deals that kind of whimpered it and far too many philosophical monologues. Overall, though, a great watch. Recommended. Just make sure you keep notes or make a spreadsheet or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Having slept on it the first 3 eps of Wheel of Time feel like a rushed, dumbed down, streamlined, soulless mega-corp production made by the Amazon B-team that didn't get jobs on the LoTR production. Nothing about it is great and some things are outright bad but the story they are borrowing the name from is still a good one so it might still turn out a watchable show. Just not one that does Robert Jordans world justice. I have a feeling this will be cancelled after 2 or 3 seasons rather than running for the projected 8 or 9 that the story needs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 9 hours ago, heffoman said: I just watched the first episode and as someone who loves the books and was only listening to the first one on audiobook last week it’s a dumpster fire. Some of the decisions they have made are just baffling. The changes you have made to the major character just why? Of all characters as well. It might appeal to non book readers but for a lot of readers this will be a huge disappointment. 3 minutes ago, sne said: Having slept on it the first 3 eps of Wheel of Time feel like a rushed, dumbed down, streamlined, soulless mega-corp production made by the Amazon B-team that didn't get jobs on the LoTR production. Nothing about it is great and some things are outright bad but the story they are borrowing the name from is still a good one so it might still turn out a watchable show. Just not one that does Robert Jordans world justice. I have a feeling this will be cancelled after 2 or 3 seasons rather than running for the projected 8 or 9 that the story needs. I watched the eps and was underwhelmed, I'll probably hold off and see you chaps feel it starts to pick up but even with the changes to the source material, I think its badly done, poor writing, some amateurish acting etc, I thought the score was poor too, it does not enhance the experience at all and managed to get in the way a couple of times. What should we be seeing? Spoiler it if got time, just a brief history of how this thing should have started and what changes are a let down. Cheers chaps, I feel your pain, even as a non fan I wanted this to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 13 hours ago, a m ole said: Love the anime and it’s fantastic so far Wanted to expand on this now I’ve binged finished it. It doesn’t touch the anime and never could, it’s definitely got a bit of a Hollywood/Sin City/Marvel vibe while still being a massively enjoyable adaptation. The story departures are very much ‘character development’ at the expense of ‘cool’ which a lot of hardcore fans have a real problem with (obviously) and it does feel like the most heavy handed westernisation aspect but I can see why they’ve done it to appeal to a wider audience. Hopefully they complete the story for season 2, pull out all the stops to service the original and end it there. I can see them trying to turn it into a dumb franchise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Phil Silvers said: I watched the eps and was underwhelmed, I'll probably hold off and see you chaps feel it starts to pick up but even with the changes to the source material, I think its badly done, poor writing, some amateurish acting etc, I thought the score was poor too, it does not enhance the experience at all and managed to get in the way a couple of times. What should we be seeing? Spoiler it if got time, just a brief history of how this thing should have started and what changes are a let down. Cheers chaps, I feel your pain, even as a non fan I wanted this to be good. OK, just a couple of the changes on top of my head to the background on the characters and the world. Could just as well say everything but that wont help you much Suffice to say not one character acts or behaves like they did in the books, apart from Padan Fain who was really good. Deep breath... Spoiler All the Eamonds Field kids aged up so now adults Men and women can be the Dragon now. Not sure about the changes to Saiding/Saidar yet (the magic power) Was in the opening scene, sure they'll explain more. Perrin married then he kills his wife. Mat is now a thief. Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk. Egwene and Rand having sex. On the same day the Womans circle deems her a adult. In the books they are not together romantically. Tam a blademaster (among the best swordsmen in the world) can not kill 1 trolloc with aid of Rand. In the books they were attacked by a whole group. They've created a rule that Wisdoms can't be married or have children. Added only to create Rand vs Egwene drama that wasn't needed Nynaeve able to kill a trolloc 1vs1 with no channeling or even having a weapon before stealing one from the trolloc Nynaeve able to sneak up on Lan. Track him maybe but too get close enough to kill him without him knowing (sorta happens in the books but nothing like this) Moiraine announcing to the whole village she is aes sedai Aes Aedai wearing color coded clothes and rings so everyone can see what they are and still managing to fool the Whitecloak Zealots who hates and hunts them. Wolves looks like puppies. Shadar Logoth a city with no gate. Looked OK still but Mashadar or the white mist that lives there is now a black mold or something. Mordeth not encountered in Shadar Logoth. And Mat finding the dagger on his own. Thom a thief who plays guitar and sings like crap Whitecloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing. There are countless other changes, mostly for the worse. Some of it is no doubt changes or things they are holding back to reveal later on but the whole tone of the thing is off. In the book it's very much a variation of the Hobbits escape from the Shire and Bree in Fellowship of the Ring, there are countless similarities. Which I'm fine with. The show pretty much fails on every level and it's riddled with things that breaks the immersion (is that the right word?) and takes you out of the moment. World doesn't feel real and the acting, pacing, cgi, dialogue, costumes and so on is below par. Shocking considering each ep has a budget of about $10m. Edited November 20, 2021 by sne 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffoman Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Pretty god summation by sne there. Just so many changes that break the whole world building and what was the point of them. I don’t want to write it off yet but… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, sne said: OK, just a couple of the changes on top of my head to the background on the characters and the world. Could just as well say everything but that wont help you much Suffice to say not one character acts or behaves like they did in the books, apart from Padan Fain who was really good. Deep breath... Reveal hidden contents All the Eamonds Field kids aged up so now adults Men and women can be the Dragon now. Not sure about the changes to Saiding/Saidar yet (the magic power) Was in the opening scene, sure they'll explain more. Perrin married then he kills his wife. Mat is now a thief. Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk. Egwene and Rand having sex. On the same day the Womans circle deems her a adult. In the books they are not together romantically. Tam a blademaster (among the best swordsmen in the world) can not kill 1 trolloc with aid of Rand. In the books they were attacked by a whole group. Nynaeve able to kill a trolloc 1vs1 with no channeling or even having a weapon before stealing one from the trolloc Nynaeve able to sneak up on Lan. Track him maybe but too get close enough to kill him without him knowing (sorta happens in the books but nothing like this) Moiraine announcing to the whole village she is aes sedai Aes Aedai wearing color coded clothes and rings so everyone can see what they are and still managing to fool the Whitecloak Zealots who hates and hunts them. Wolves looks like puppies. Shadar Logoth a city with no gate. Looked OK still but Mashadar or the white mist that lives there is now a black mold or something. Mordeth not encountered in Shadar Logoth. And Mat finding the dagger on his own. Thom a thief who plays guitar and sings like crap Whitecloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing. There are countless other changes, mostly for the worse. Some of it is no doubt changes or things they are holding back to reveal later on but the whole tone of the thing is off. In the book it's very much a variation of the Hobbits escape from the Shire and Bree in Fellowship of the Ring, there are countless similarities. Which I'm fine with. The show pretty much fails on every level and it's riddled with things that breaks the immersion (is that the right word?) and takes you out of the moment. World doesn't feel real and the acting, pacing, cgi, dialogue, costumes and so on is below par. Shocking considering each ep has a budget of about $10m. Crikey, it's barely The Wheel of Time then! Thanks for explaining all that, you are right, if done well and faithfully, you should/would become fully immersed in the flow of it. 10m per episode and that's what they come up with, as I said in a previous post, these streaming giants just blast out as much content as possible like glorified YouTubers, hits views etc following, if they drop the ball so what, something else will click and pick it back up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Just DL first 2 episodes of S5 Gomorra, can't wait. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I've never been able to quite motivate myself to read the Wheel of Time and I was holding out for this show, but it sounds like it's best to skip it and just wait to find the time for the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I've never been able to quite motivate myself to read the Wheel of Time and I was holding out for this show, but it sounds like it's best to skip it and just wait to find the time for the books? I'd go for the books but not sure how they stand up these days, I was a teenager when I read the first ones and stayed with them as an adult so I could see them through to the end. Almost 12.000 pages so it's a daunting task. As a stand alone thing for people who's not read the books this show might still work. Plenty stuff out there that is much worse than this, it's just that it should have been much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 20/11/2021 at 12:29, sne said: OK, just a couple of the changes on top of my head to the background on the characters and the world. Could just as well say everything but that wont help you much Suffice to say not one character acts or behaves like they did in the books, apart from Padan Fain who was really good. Deep breath... Hide contents All the Eamonds Field kids aged up so now adults (Not bothered that much. It was either that or a teenage show like Shannara, I suppose. Though it's said that egwene is younger.) Men and women can be the Dragon now. (Not sure about that one. Still possible that it's just Moiraine, but that is bad in itself because she would know.) Not sure about the changes to Saiding/Saidar yet (the magic power) Was in the opening scene, sure they'll explain more. (Yep, uncertain) Perrin married then he kills his wife. (Probably to give some nuances to Perrin's mode. Not that bothered. Don't like that this means they've probably cut out the Luhanns.) Mat is now a thief. (Yep, I didn't like that one) Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk. (Or this. The only reason I can see behind it is to explain why Mat himself is a womanizer and likes a drink, but no. Didn't like that at all.) Egwene and Rand having sex. On the same day the Womans circle deems her a adult. In the books they are not together romantically. (This was also a disappointment to me. It's not like they had no romance between them. They were expected to get married in the future, but not this.) Tam a blademaster (among the best swordsmen in the world) can not kill 1 trolloc with aid of Rand. In the books they were attacked by a whole group. (Didn't even think about it, but yes, a bit rushed.) They've created a rule that Wisdoms can't be married or have children. Added only to create Rand vs Egwene drama that wasn't needed (Thought about that and although I don't think a rule is mentioned I can't remember a wisdom that actually IS married. Not a problem for me.) Nynaeve able to kill a trolloc 1vs1 with no channeling or even having a weapon before stealing one from the trolloc (Not bothered. Why wouldn't she? They're big, strong and dumb.) Nynaeve able to sneak up on Lan. Track him maybe but too get close enough to kill him without him knowing (sorta happens in the books but nothing like this) (The most cringe with that is the way it looked like Liv Tyler sneaking up on Aragorn in LotR.. Nynaeve is a good tracker and a sneaker. In the book Lan is impressed by how she could track them despite his efforts to hide their way but that's in his thoughts. Guess this is a way to show that without going in to peoples minds.) Moiraine announcing to the whole village she is aes sedai (Mmm, a little annoying, especially as they fear the Aes Sedais and they're torn between liking her for saving them, or to fear her.) Aes Aedai wearing color coded clothes and rings so everyone can see what they are and still managing to fool the Whitecloak Zealots who hates and hunts them. (They most often are wearing clothes matching their Ajah. Moiraine is always dressed in blue. She sneaks the ring away to Lan.) Wolves looks like puppies. (Never thought of that, but yes, they were small.) Shadar Logoth a city with no gate. Looked OK still but Mashadar or the white mist that lives there is now a black mold or something. (I've always thought of it as black and it's often discussed what's the difference between it and the Machine Shin. So I think they got it right.) Mordeth not encountered in Shadar Logoth. And Mat finding the dagger on his own. (I think they cut off Mordeth and that was one of the things I thought they would as his endning is kind of meh anyway. Not bothered at all.) Thom a thief who plays guitar and sings like crap (He has a raspy voice which is a bit weird as that's probably not how he sings in front of royals. ) Whitecloaks recommending Aes Sedai healing. (Didn't think about it then, but yes, that's really stupid. They should've scrapped that idea.) There are countless other changes, mostly for the worse. Some of it is no doubt changes or things they are holding back to reveal later on but the whole tone of the thing is off. In the book it's very much a variation of the Hobbits escape from the Shire and Bree in Fellowship of the Ring, there are countless similarities. Which I'm fine with. The show pretty much fails on every level and it's riddled with things that breaks the immersion (is that the right word?) and takes you out of the moment. World doesn't feel real and the acting, pacing, cgi, dialogue, costumes and so on is below par. Shocking considering each ep has a budget of about $10m. Some personal comments hidden. I thought the first episode had its faults, to say the least. Rushed and some unnecessary changes that made things worse. But it definetely got better in the E2 and 3. After all it's an adaption and they aren't meant to be the same. I try not to think too much about what happened in the books and what didn't happen. It's early days and i think it might be good. I think the trollocs looked far better than I thought, costumes wasn't bad, dialogue most of the time good, but why "shit" instead of "light" or the other phrases they use in the books? The acting, well, it could be better and I think it will. Not shocking at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzzle Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 I have finished Foundation now and I loved it. Not being familiar with the source material it was a bit confusing at times but I read up on it and pretty much know what is going on. I know the book readers are a bit butthurt about it but I have never really understood why book readers get so angry with changes and differences to the book, I mean why would you want to know exactly what was going happen in something you're watching does that not defeat the purpose of watching something? Not being a book reader myself I realise I am probably alone in that thinking though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Somehow I've never watched The Wire despite the reviews and the amount of people on here who have recommended it. Two weeks ago I decided to give it a go; I'm now currently halfway through season 2. What a show! It took me about 4 episodes to get into it but now I'm hooked. Would highly recommend if there is anyone left who hasn't seen it either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Just finished Cowboy Bebop. Oh dear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Bizzzle said: I have finished Foundation now and I loved it. Not being familiar with the source material it was a bit confusing at times but I read up on it and pretty much know what is going on. I know the book readers are a bit butthurt about it but I have never really understood why book readers get so angry with changes and differences to the book, I mean why would you want to know exactly what was going happen in something you're watching does that not defeat the purpose of watching something? Not being a book reader myself I realise I am probably alone in that thinking though Yeah, really enjoyed the series, but I felt it was quite different to the books, so I re-read the books... The books are quite clever in concept, by my god, they're badly written. There are no characters, all the individuals are male, unless the plot needs them to be female. Of its time I suppose, but still, I winced at the general godawfulness of some of the prose. So, back to the TV series. I liked it very much. Some of the changes I'm unsure about, but let's wait and see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 15/11/2021 at 15:45, HanoiVillan said: Oh right. Can't say it interests me, I watched one episode about 15 years ago and thought it was incredibly stupid. Ridiculous concept. Never been tempted to watch one episode. I just know it would be Tom - Tit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 minute ago, sheepyvillian said: Ridiculous concept. Never been tempted to watch one episode. I just know it would be Tom - Tit. Your intuition has not failed you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Your intuition has not failed you here. That is a rarity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts