Cricket: General Chat

[John]

1 hour ago, Rodders said:

Burns, Roy, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow, Curran, Woakes, Broad, Leach, Archer.

That is precisely the eleven that I was about to suggest. I would put Woakes in ahead of Curran and Leach before Broad after his innings against Ireland myself, but I wouldn't want to quibble about a couple of minor alterations to the batting order.

We go again. Let's go win the next three!

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, veloman said:

Not really knowledgeable  enough to come up with sensible alternatives

Even if there were any (and I think there are a few people who have played for the Lions over the last couple of years who could be looked at - Hain/Sibley/Clarke/Livingstone), how fair on them would it be to drop them in to an Ashes series where we're already one down and they'll have had hardly any red ball cricket in the last month or they might have been struggling on poorish wickets earlier in the season and have an average like Clarke of 20 odd?

The set up of our county game is not really there to help someone force their way in to the team/squad during the summer through sheer weight of runs or wickets.

[VILLAMARV]

There's a few positives in there for me despite the disappointing nature of the defeat. We've played almost the entire match without one of our [best ever] front line bowlers. And we've a decent pool to choose from.

Burns showed he can mix it which is good for us. We needed one of the new boys to have a decent game. Decent stand with Root in the Windies aside, Denly hasn't shown much really. The argument for Roy has been dismantled today with that shot selection. It started the collapse and he'll rightly get pelters for it. We also know he can take the game away from teams albeit in the shorter format. It's definitely a mental battle with him. Why not play the wild-card - it's not like we have a whole line of players waiting in the wings is it? The Bairstow/Foakes one is interesting. Not a huge fan of Bairstow myself but every time I seem to be at the end of my tether with him we seem to get a response. One to revisit in a couple of matches time for me if he doesn't sort it out. 

Moeen though. His batting got him in the team, then it turned out he could bowl a bit, then his bowling is the reason he's in the team and his batting goes awry. Now the bowling seems to have gone wayward. There's little to hang on to there right now. Normally I wouldn't expect the ECB to change anything after the first match, but I think we might see Leach, if only to try something different at Smith.

Personally, as I've said a few times, Curran should be in there for me. Denly would make way. Exactly as @Rodders has it. (Only send Woakes in at 7 Curran at 8 )

Edited August 5, 2019 by VILLAMARV
you cant end with 8-bracket without making a smiley

[bobzy]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

Good stuff lads.  Let's show them how to lose properly!

You did it lads - fantastic stuff!

 

 

[Xela]

No surprise we caved today.

Roy - not a test batsman 

Buttler - not a test batsman 

Denly - not an international batsman in any format

Bairstow - struggling in tests at the moment 

Moeen - as useful as a paper raincoat at present.

Who comes in though? There is a lack of decent red ball batters in the country now due to the neglect of the county championship in favour of white ball cricket. The championship is now consigned to the start and end of the season with the prime summertime period being used for the more money spinning formats. This means we aren't developing spinners as well. Lyon is a decent spinner but he looks like Shane Warne when bowling to our players. We need to bring in players who can play the longer game - Foakes? Ballance? Sibley? Hildreth? (ok, bit old maybe). No more stuffing white ball players into red ball teams. The days of Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Bell, Trott, Pietersen, et al, seem a long way away now! Back when we could produce test batters who could concentrate for more than 20 minutes.

 

 

[Zatman]

Not sure if he even plays it anymore but England could bring in Morgan as captain which would also free Root

[snowychap]

17 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Not sure if he even plays it anymore but England could bring in Morgan as captain which would also free Root

No no no.

May as well give Chris Cowdrey a call.

[chappy]

Agree with the above team. Archer for Anderson, Leach for Moeen and Curran for Denly. Might make us a bit bowler heavy but it reduces the bowling burden on Stokes and let’s face it, Curran is just as (if not more) likely to score runs as Denly.

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

There's a few positives in there for me despite the disappointing nature of the defeat. We've played almost the entire match without one of our [best ever] front line bowlers. And we've a decent pool to choose from.

Burns showed he can mix it which is good for us. We needed one of the new boys to have a decent game. Decent stand with Root in the Windies aside, Denly hasn't shown much really. The argument for Roy has been dismantled today with that shot selection. It started the collapse and he'll rightly get pelters for it. We also know he can take the game away from teams albeit in the shorter format. It's definitely a mental battle with him. Why not play the wild-card - it's not like we have a whole line of players waiting in the wings is it? The Bairstow/Foakes one is interesting. Not a huge fan of Bairstow myself but every time I seem to be at the end of my tether with him we seem to get a response. One to revisit in a couple of matches time for me if he doesn't sort it out. 

Moeen though. His batting got him in the team, then it turned out he could bowl a bit, then his bowling is the reason he's in the team and his batting goes awry. Now the bowling seems to have gone wayward. There's little to hang on to there right now. Normally I wouldn't expect the ECB to change anything after the first match, but I think we might see Leach, if only to try something different at Smith.

Personally, as I've said a few times, Curran should be in there for me. Denly would make way. Exactly as @Rodders has it. (Only send Woakes in at 7 Curran at 8 )

Stewart always talks Curran up more as a batsman than a bowler , at 8 he’ll run out of partners , send him in at 6 or 7  

[mikeyp102]

Curran and Woakes to open the batting next match 

Joking aside, Curran has to come in. Similar to Roy, I’d question whether Archer has the temperament to play test. Will he get frustrated if not getting quick wickets? 

Do we have another spin bowler to come in? Surely for his own sanity we have to take Ali out of the firing line? 

[lapal_fan]

We need an older head to open.  

I don't mean Ian Bell, but someone sensible who can face 200 balls and get 30 runs.  

With players like Bairstow and Butler coming in at 5/6, you need to use them to take the game away from the opposition when we're already in a commanding place.  But you can't use them to build a lead. 

In test cricket, it's a risky strategy and it's a risk that didn't pay off at Edgbaston.

[wazzap24]

19 hours ago, Xela said:

No surprise we caved today.

Roy - not a test batsman 

Buttler - not a test batsman 

Denly - not an international batsman in any format

Bairstow - struggling in tests at the moment 

Moeen - as useful as a paper raincoat at present.

Who comes in though? There is a lack of decent red ball batters in the country now due to the neglect of the county championship in favour of white ball cricket. The championship is now consigned to the start and end of the season with the prime summertime period being used for the more money spinning formats. This means we aren't developing spinners as well. Lyon is a decent spinner but he looks like Shane Warne when bowling to our players. We need to bring in players who can play the longer game - Foakes? Ballance? Sibley? Hildreth? (ok, bit old maybe). No more stuffing white ball players into red ball teams. The days of Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Bell, Trott, Pietersen, et al, seem a long way away now! Back when we could produce test batters who could concentrate for more than 20 minutes.

 

 

I’m not a cricket expert by any means, but do you think this is an England-specific problem (red ball batters) or just the way the game is going in general? 

4th best test-side in the world according to current rankings, with India, NZ and SA above us - and the Aussies just below. 

If you took Kohli out of the Indian team and dropped him into ours, would we overtake them in the next 12-18 months? 

Same with Smith, if you took him out of the Aussie team, they look pretty average to me across the board? 

I don’t think there are currently any great ‘test teams’, just 4/5 with great individual, test players? 

We seem to be one good opener and a decent (consistent) spinner away from being as good as anybody on paper? 

We have a number of players lacking a bit of form more than anything. 

[Xela]

2 hours ago, wazzap24 said:

I’m not a cricket expert by any means, but do you think this is an England-specific problem (red ball batters) or just the way the game is going in general? 

4th best test-side in the world according to current rankings, with India, NZ and SA above us - and the Aussies just below. 

If you took Kohli out of the Indian team and dropped him into ours, would we overtake them in the next 12-18 months? 

Same with Smith, if you took him out of the Aussie team, they look pretty average to me across the board? 

I don’t think there are currently any great ‘test teams’, just 4/5 with great individual, test players? 

We seem to be one good opener and a decent (consistent) spinner away from being as good as anybody on paper? 

We have a number of players lacking a bit of form more than anything. 

I think England more than most have taken their eye off the ball with red ball cricket by the treatment of the county championship. Basically pushing it to the far ends of the season. We're not going to develop test players, or not as many, as before. Everyone wants to be a white ball player, travelling the world and playing in well funded T20 leagues where they will earn good money. In that respect then you can't blame them. You'll see more players move away from the first class format to be specialists in one day games. Adil Rashid doesn't want to play red ball cricket for Yorkshire. Mohammad Amir of Pakistan has just quit test cricket at 27... but still wants to play for Pakistan in ODI and T20 formats. Its all about preserving their bodies so they can milk the one day teet longer. 

What to do to rectify the problem? No idea but the whole of English cricket needs a shake up. This new format, The 'Hundred' is a waste of time. Why invent another form of shorter cricket? Well, the answer as always is £££. I get that teams need to be profitable but there needs to be some radical thinking in terms of how to reinvigorate the longer form of the game. 

England struggle to find enough batters to play in the test team - that is shameful. People like Denly, Westley, Jennings and Stoneman wouldn't have got in the England team 20 years ago... some of them may have struggled to get into a county team with their f/c batting averages in the low to mid 30's. Buttler, Roy and Hales are not test batsmen. Superb ODI/T20 players but have been shoehorned into a format they don't have the skills to thrive in (patience being one of the skills!)

I'll stop sounding like Geoff Boycott now! 

[Xela]

Oh, and I wouldn't have Root captaining a knock about in the park, let alone the national team. 

[MrDuck]

I don't think there's any point in wholesale changes, there are no obvious batsmen to bring in and improve the team. We lost badly, but most of that is down to Jimmy's injury and Moeen looking totally broken as a bowler now, as well as a batsman. Not forgetting the freak of nature that is Steve Smith. Australia's batting is not in much better shape than ours, and a fit Anderson would have made for a very different game.

But I think there's a stat that world cup winners always lose the first test series following the cup!

I'd bring in Archer for Anderson, and either Leach or Curran for Moeen, depending on the wicket. Denly perhaps another chance as his bowling is handy.

We're desperately short of top order batsmen - Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow and arguably Woakes and Denly are all natural number 6 players really.

Tim Paine's keeping also shows us what we're missing, Buttler (in the WC) and Bairstow in the 1st test both lack the technique of a really top class keeper and seem to cost us a wicket every innings.

 

 

 

[MrDuck]

On 06/08/2019 at 04:26, Xela said:

 Lyon is a decent spinner but he looks like Shane Warne when bowling to our players.

 

Lyon was a "decent" off spinner for the first half of his test career.

Since his debut in 2011 he's taken 352 wickets - more than any other bowler in the world in that same period. Only two off-spinners have ever taken more test wickets than Lyon - Muralitharan and Harbhajan Singh.

In the last few years he has become one of the all time great off-spinners. "Decent" doesn't even begin to describe him!

[Xela]

12 hours ago, MrDuck said:

Lyon was a "decent" off spinner for the first half of his test career.

Since his debut in 2011 he's taken 352 wickets - more than any other bowler in the world in that same period. Only two off-spinners have ever taken more test wickets than Lyon - Muralitharan and Harbhajan Singh.

In the last few years he has become one of the all time great off-spinners. "Decent" doesn't even begin to describe him!

Maybe i was a tad harsh on him! 

 

[veloman]

While we attempt to solve England's problems can we also try to discover what the hell is going on at Warwickshire ? Rapidly knocked out of 50 over competition ; don't look like getting anywhere in T20 (particularly after last nights humiliation ) and MAY only stay in Div 1 'cos Notts seem doomed. Comments ?

[snowychap]

Well, they've replaced Moeen with Jack Leach in the squad which is no great surprise.

I'd have thought it may have been useful to have given Moeen a chance to go and play some red ball cricket if he wasn't to be included next week.

Releasing him to go back and play for Worcs against the touring Australia team this week would have seemed an ideal opportunity (okay, he may have got hit out of the park and roughed up by Starc but I'm not sure he could have found himself in a worse position than being out of form with no cricket to play).

Edited August 9, 2019 by snowychap

[PaulC]

Can’t argue with dropping him but hope he’s not written off. Leading wicket taker in test cricket in the last 12 months so he’s not a bad player. He cashed in by playing ipl so it’s his own fault really he was unprepared for the season. 

 

Just get bacj score runs and take wickets for Worcester and make the touring side