New Aston Villa Stadium Chat

[Sulberto21]

33 minutes ago, meregreen said:

So are you in favour of relocating Villa Park to a more accessible site then. Because those cars aren’t going away.

What difference does it make what I think? I don’t care where we play as long as we win.

[Pongo Waring]

As the days go by people are warming to the idea of a brand new modern day stadium that even the Romans would be proud of. Even @villabromsgroveis on board now

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villabromsgrove said:

I can remember Villa Park in the late 1950's and every decade since then. It's in my blood and I have so many memories. I can remember when buses and coaches would pick up supporters from their towns and villages on a Saturday lunchtime. Those of us in the sixties and seventies with our Austins, Morris's and the few well off guys with their Rovers, would drive into the surrounds of VP then park up and walk in for ten minutes or so.

Times have changed. Football has changed, and what was possible and acceptable in the second part of the 1900's is no longer a serviceable option.

The owners of top Premier Clubs have to make very large amounts of money commercially to stay at or near the top where the real financial incentives are. I think it's inevitable we will have to accept at some point that the location of our Villa Park stadium limits our ability to create sufficient additional money streams.

Relocation to a brown site with good access and transport links, and the ability to stage non football events on a very regular basis, without interfering with "a local community" is essential in my opinion.

I never thought I would say this but I believe that change should happen if we want Villa to be a "Top club". If we were able to find a suitable site and relocate the iconic Holte End facade into our new "Villa Park" design, while perhaps also re-creating the historic brick face of the old Trinity Road stand as an historic resonating feature, then "Villa Park would still exist in spirit! I think  fans could quickly adjust to our "spiritual home" having moved a handful of miles away.

There is no really enjoyable match day "Villa Park experience" except during the actual match on the pitch. We have to deal with the time consuming crowded hassle, lack of public transport and vehicle parking, and the "joy" of wading in piss if you fancy a good drink and the inevitable toilet trips, not to mention the frustration of trying to access decent food. We may be an awakening 'giant' on the pitch, but we will never again be the top venue that we used to be even with the current building permissions, unless we face the stark fact that the location of VP makes a viable business plan for the next few decades totally unrealistic.

I'll put my tin hat on, lol.

 

 

I think, its a very Brave post and one we might all have to countenance.

It may be more of a wrench to the old nostalgic folk like me, than the new up and coming supporter, growing in to adulthood.

The Atmosphere is still a huge asset, to all concerned, fans, players, and club....that could be difficult to replicate.

I have a dark notion the club has out grown itself, in the area, and the industialisation of the area, is closing in on us.....Its prime inner city land.

I have a further, suspicion Chris Heck also sees this thought.....but feels he is treading on egg shells, to say it. He will be accused of the new kid on the block being a disruptor of history and tradition.

I really don't know the answer....but I am loathe, to dismiss anything, until we have had time to have a sensible debate on it.

Something tells me practicality needs to be aired, irrespective how sensitive and prickly it seems right now.....what ever is decided, it won't be temporary, it will be for a long haul....These projects don't grow on trees.

Right now, I am a season ticket holder....and its easy to say "I'm all right jack" , but we have to think about the young fans who need to be catered for, who can't currently see their heroes in the flesh.

I can also see the dilemma of having to reduce capacity for nigh on 2 years, at a time when the club is experiencing its most succesful run on the field.

I am not well placed to make judgments.....but could we build a new ground like Spurs and Everton, 2 clubs steeped in history just like us?.

The decision to pause, is right in my opinion......time to think this all through, in a less pressurised time scale.

The important thing, is to make the right decision for the future, not the past.

PS This project is a very testing time for a new chief, who has not experienced the nostalgia and Traditions of this famous old ground.....Tough calls might have to be made, lets help him, and not castigate him, I'm sure he wants to do right by all.

We are all in this together, and compromises will inevitably have to be made.

Edited December 20, 2023 by TRO

[thabucks]

I wonder if Brum councils bankruptcy there may be a deal to be done on a prime piece of real estate nearer the centre and that has brought to the clubs attention and is being looked into. A multi use stadium similar to the renovated Bernabeu would be a huge asset to the city. 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

I think mired in all this is that you had one vision from the previous CEO (Purslow) that was sold and then another CEO comes in and takes a look at the less than public ideas behind it and pulls the plug.

So while I think Heck might take the blame on this as the public face, NWSE has to shoulder some responsibility for the abrupt about face on it as well. It is, after all, theirs and their investor's cash and not Heck's.

Perhaps similar to the decision to hire Unai - either Nassef or Wes will take a more hands on approach to the stadium renovations.

I think bubbling away in the back ground is a thought that no one wants to face.....These decisions take courage and an awful lot of consideration to all factors.

Many of those factors affecting this decision, is not of our direct making such as outside infrastructure and transport facilities.

The prospect of taking a on a huge undertaking such as this, was always a big ask, while still fulfilling fixtures....the logistics is way above my head.

Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, West Ham and Man City......had a much easier transition, in to their expansion plans.....I do fear, it may come down to us doing much the same.

I believe this has been announced as a "Pause" to let the dust settle, the penny to drop, before the practical and sensible options get aired.

Ther will be a lot of debate on this.

[GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS]

We're a long way behind other PL clubs when it comes to growing and engaging overseas audiences, therefore we need to play the cards we've got...

We have a huge geographic advantage domestically.  Middle of the country, with no elite competition around us in terms of clubs or venues.  Therefore we need to become the events destination of the midlands and beyond.  The best way to do that is build a new state of the art stadium, which shits all over everything between London and Manchester.  I'm pretty sure stadium build costs don't factor into FFP (I think Everton's fine was to do with interest payments on the new stadium, which for some reason do count) so we'd be flexing our financial muscle in a way which won't hinder us on that front.

Villa Park is iconic and we all love it, but it has too many limitations - not to mention any development of it will be slower and detrimental to the playing side of things.  Times change, this is a new era, let's not let sentimentality hold us back.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

We're a long way behind other PL clubs when it comes to growing and engaging overseas audiences, therefore we need to play the cards we've got...

We have a huge geographic advantage domestically.  Middle of the country, with no elite competition around us in terms of clubs or venues.  Therefore we need to become the events destination of the midlands and beyond.  The best way to do that is build a new state of the art stadium, which shits all over everything between London and Manchester.  I'm pretty sure stadium build costs don't factor into FFP (I think Everton's fine was to do with interest payments on the new stadium, which for some reason do count) so we'd be flexing our financial muscle in a way which won't hinder us on that front.

Villa Park is iconic and we all love it, but it has too many limitations - not to mention any development of it will be slower and detrimental to the playing side of things.  Times change, this is a new era, let's not let sentimentality hold us back.

I really do see your point, and its growing on me, despite me having no idea of the financial implications or wider views.

I am 72 and been going to the ground since I was 9 over half a century and my love for the old ground is immeasurable....I won't be around forever, ( euphemism) so why should I deny the young supporters the pride of having a new competing stadium, just to satisfy my selfish nostalgia.....I wouldn't do that, as much as it would break my heart to wave goodbye to Villa Park.

As has been suggested, many of the artefacts can be transferred, and a traditional look could still be incorporated in to a 21st century shiny new version.....we have to move on.

I too am warming to the idea of a  new stadium.

[sne]

5 minutes ago, rubberman said:

See Chelsea for details. They have had new stadium plans for years and are no closer to realising them. Latest cost was something like £2bn and will take 7 years - including having to ground share with eg Fulham for a while. Can't see us agreeing to ground share with anyone nearby!

PSG are in for a similar situation in Paris. Even with unlimited money it's hard to find ground to build on in some big cities 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, sne said:

PSG are in for a similar situation in Paris. Even with unlimited money it's hard to find ground to build on in some big cities 

I see enough evidence of commercial, industrial and religious buildings, going up to suggest that may not be accurate...

I also see demolition companies, making a decent living too....there are brown field sites being made, regularly....but I suspect inner Birmingham would still be counter productive, due to the road network, being congested.

However, the road and rail networks are the biggest consideration to tap in to, so I would guess, around by the NEC in Solihull, would be Prime land, for such a prospect/project.

It is also close to Birmingham Airport, another consideration on our Global agenda.....and BMH

Edited December 20, 2023 by TRO

[DJBOB]

Funnily enough, this strikes back memories of the Miami (NFL and collegiate) and their move out of the Orange Bowl.

Some similarities in that the Orange Bowl was built in 1937 and the Dolphins had their perfect season there. It was also vastly intimidating, with the seats closer to the field, the metal and steel structures causing an enormous echo which made it deafening on the pitch when the crowd got into it. The Dolphins won their super bowls and the Miami Hurricanes won 58 straight home games there - such was the intimidation of the Orange Bowl.

But it was dilapidated and impossible to update - with the surrounding neighborhood going through a low period at the time. The Dolphins moved out in the 80's and the Hurricanes in the 2000s and they both play in the Hard Rock Stadium, home of plush hospitality suites, concerts, and F1 races recently. Traffic is still terrible but slightly more feasible because of the location and the enormous lots. Both of the teams are terrible now though the Dolphins have had a bit of a revival.

Not sure what the lesson to be learned there is - but the similarities are very striking to me now.

They might all say they're not thinking of moving to a new stadium - but it is the easiest way out (though not the cheapest).

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, thabucks said:

I wonder if Brum councils bankruptcy there may be a deal to be done on a prime piece of real estate nearer the centre and that has brought to the clubs attention and is being looked into. A multi use stadium similar to the renovated Bernabeu would be a huge asset to the city. 

They have announced a massive land sale but I just don't think there's a site big enough which is close enough to the city centre. 

Now if there was a massive plot around the NEC............ 

[OutByEaster?]

59 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

Choose which option you would like a new stadium to look like?

Aesthetically, I think Everton's new ground will be the best in the country. I think the design and the riverside location are unmatched.

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

They have announced a massive land sale but I just don't think there's a site big enough which is close enough to the city centre. 

Now if there was a massive plot around the NEC............ 

The council owns Aston Hall don't they? They could sell that to us. I think only the building's listed, so maybe the land next to the playground and playground itself could be acquired and repurposed to let us expand in that direction?

[Pongo Waring]

40 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Aesthetically, I think Everton's new ground will be the best in the country. I think the design and the riverside location are unmatched.

Yeah looks nice!  52K seater too.

[fightoffyour]

Good. If you move from Villa Park you might as well move to Albuquerque.

[AvonVillain]

15 hours ago, tinker said:

If we're gonna compete at the very top, season after season, then we need a stadium to match those ambitions and Villa Park will need to be completely rebuilt to match those ambitions.

I don't quite get this argument. Take Stamford Bridge for example - a stadium with LESS capacity than VP - and ask how this stadium has negativity affected Chelsea's hoovering up all the available trophies over the last couple of decades competing at the very top?

Isn't the current debate more an obsession with the fans rather than a genuine hindrance or any indication of owner ambition?

[Mic09]

17 hours ago, kidlewis said:

There’s absolutely no way moving from

VP will be acceptable to fans unless they plan on making tickets £10 a game forever…

they need to sort their heads out and get these plans agreed.

was exciting to see this when it came out and the back tracking looks embarrassing and shows a lack of well thought out  planning.

It would be acceptable to me if the new stadium brought more fans and kept the VP spirit.

One day we all move out from our family home. If the new house is better, why not? New memories will come in order for the house to become a home. 

[paul514]

11 hours ago, kidlewis said:

Almost every new stadium doesn’t keep the atmosphere. Hammers, Arsenal and spurs all struggled with it, plus villa park has more history and heritage than those three combined. 
and we don’t necessarily need to if the planning and project is don’t correctly. 
They need to get “proper people” on the job and not faff about releasing big press releases then reneging on it. That is amateur hour 

I'd love us to move, I HATE that area.

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

In my opinion growing the financial base has to be at least a decade long project. It would take regular 'Champions League' involvement for several years and would then mean that a new stadium with state of the art infrastructure would become inevitable.

I've attended Villa Park for a very long time including standing on the surging Holte terraces. I've struggled into and out of Aston so many times that it finally wore me out.  VP is still an historically great venue, but sadly it's reaching the end of its ability to cope with the logistics required to qualify as a genuine top club.

If we want to become (and remain) a top four club, then due to ground restraints it has to be team and player and coach focussed first, to attain a regular top four league position. If we make the final 'top tier' step successfully then considerably increased sponsorship and regular 'huge' prize money from the CL involvement will drive the investment in an impressive new stadium.   

A couple of years ago I would not have dreamt that I would post this, but if NSWE, Unai and Monchi remain committed I can see AVFC reaching the pinnacle (but not at B6 6HE).

Where is this ground going to be with 2 x mainline railway stations on its doorstep and immediately off a motorway junction? 

Does Anfield have this? 

The location is actually great. 

Only The NEC would make sense to move from where we are now. 

[imavillan]

13 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

In my opinion growing the financial base has to be at least a decade long project. It would take regular 'Champions League' involvement for several years and would then mean that a new stadium with state of the art infrastructure would become inevitable.

I've attended Villa Park for a very long time including standing on the surging Holte terraces. I've struggled into and out of Aston so many times that it finally wore me out.  VP is still an historically great venue, but sadly it's reaching the end of its ability to cope with the logistics required to qualify as a genuine top club.

If we want to become (and remain) a top four club, then due to ground restraints it has to be team and player and coach focussed first, to attain a regular top four league position. If we make the final 'top tier' step successfully then considerably increased sponsorship and regular 'huge' prize money from the CL involvement will drive the investment in an impressive new stadium.   

A couple of years ago I would not have dreamt that I would post this, but if NSWE, Unai and Monchi remain committed I can see AVFC reaching the pinnacle (but not at B6 6HE).

I think you are right.

The vast majority of fans hold there heart tp Villa Park, understandably so. It holds so many fond memories.

I, too have attended Villa Park on many many occasions over the years. I've stood on the Holte, the grassy bank of the Witton etc and the ground has come on immensely over the years.

Now here comes the but. The North Stand and the Doug Ellis stand are no longer fit for purpose. Narrow walk ways, narrow concourses with totally inadequate facilities. I am surprised there has not been any accidents in these areas. They are both disasters waiting to happen.

Villa Park is great yes, but it's like Triggers broom. You can not do too much with the DE stand unless you buy all the houses behind it (good luck with that) so the club are constrained with it. Yet it's a very poor stand for this day and age. 

For us to progress, we need a new stadium and there's plenty of room in Aston for it to still be there.