Violence outside Villa Park

[sidcow]

34 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i actually think there was a clear plan. and that plan was that they were never coming into the ground. the only thing they possibly didn't plan for is the pockets of legia fans around the ground and in home sections

I am inclined to agree otherwise I can't understand how very early fans didn't get in.

However inside the ground were very large numbers of stewards.  Literally rows and rows of them all standing there in the away end.  Not sure they would have been employed at great expense if the plan was to never allow them in.

I'm prepared to go with the theory that there were literally no tickets issued.  There were no fans rocking up an hour before kick off with their tickets before the mob arrived.  Which is a totally insane position for LW to take.

Edited December 1, 2023 by sidcow

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Follyfoot said:

My understanding is Wizla are the best/worst depending how you view these things 

They are probably worse, but there is less of them. Also, they like to use weapons in Krakow, which no other city in Poland does.

But Wisla are in 2nd division now and we won't see them around in Europe anytime soon. 

[Mic09]

Just now, sidcow said:

 

However inside the ground were very large numbers of stewards.  Literally rows and rows of them all standing there in the away end.  Not sure they would have been employed at great expense if the pan was to never allow them in.

 

That's a good point. I was at VP at 7pm and there were not only stewards but armoured police at the away end.  If Villa knew no away fans are let in, why organise this?

It must have been a late call. 

[The Fun Factory]

8 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Absolutely. They always cause trouble. 

I guess if Villa was given 3k tickets to go to Milan and Madrid and all of a sudden that was cut by 2k, people would still travel. As soon as fixtures come out people arrange stuff so they get a place. If you are eligible for a ticket, you think you'd get one.

Like I said, any trouble is 100% of idiots from Legia. But, the whole thing wasn't handled well. Why not let them in 2 hours before the game, make sure there is no alcohol, and keep them in one space so that it's easier to control?

I don't get it, but I am sure there are smarter people than me in Police that made some calls on how to handle it. 

Because the ultras have been saying for weeks on social media that they were planning to gain illegal entry to the stadium? If you let them all in who knows what they would have done in the ground. They make Milwall look cuddly.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said:

Because the ultras have been saying for weeks on social media that they were planning to gain illegal entry to the stadium? If you let them all in who knows what they would have done in the ground. They make Milwall look cuddly.

Yet they travel to Europe pretty much every season and don't destroy stadiums... I get there is risk involved and I am the last person to excuse those pricks from Legia. 

I think it must have been a late call from Villa to not let them in at all. 

[Follyfoot]

16 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

Got a good arm on him in all fairness. Shame they do not play cricket in Poland

[mjmooney]

Come to not see the Villa 

You've only come to not see the Villa 

 

[bcarpet]

Didn't they already have an away ban for the game in Bosnia?

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

Absolutely. They always cause trouble. 

I guess if Villa was given 3k tickets to go to Milan and Madrid and all of a sudden that was cut by 2k, people would still travel. As soon as fixtures come out people arrange stuff so they get a place. If you are eligible for a ticket, you think you'd get one.

Like I said, any trouble is 100% of idiots from Legia. But, the whole thing wasn't handled well. Why not let them in 2 hours before the game, make sure there is no alcohol, and keep them in one space so that it's easier to control?

I don't get it, but I am sure there are smarter people than me in Police that made some calls on how to handle it. 

Because they didn't know who they had to let in, because they hadn't distributed tickets

[villaliver]

I think these polish hooligan gangs was on a programme once they train themselves to do this kind of violence they shouldn't of not been allowed entrance to our country never mind been allowed to go to villa park there's rumours they caused trouble in the city centre before the game i think the football authorities handled this Europa game very badly its not worth putting up with this violence just for a place in the Europa league conference perhaps champion's league yes but not Europa league conference its just not worth it.

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[AlwaysAVFC]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

With regards to hotel and flights. Why would you book and pay for hotels before your ticket has been issued? That sounds like utter nonsense from them and just trying to play as victims again.

There's Villa fans that will have bought travel for our games before being guaranteed a ticket. Maybe they would be hopeful to get one but certainly if we had an allocation cut, there would be plenty travelling without a ticket, flights would be booked as soon as the fixture was announced. My only european away against Slavia Prague, I was far from being guaranteed a ticket and no doubt should we get there, semis and final there will be loads going with little chance of a ticket.

That's not saying they would kick off though and the club would absolutely arrange to make sure the correct people got the tickets and be in dialogue with the opposition and also to fans without tickets to help with a smooth operation. I don't think our fans would try on mass to gain entry. Depending on access systems no doubt a few would try to get in.

That's not any excuse for what happened. Maybe raises a question of whether it was right to reduce allocation if it was known another 1000 were still coming. However there was talk of 3000+ turning up, that's still 1k more than they would have had allocated anyway. So would it have changed anything?

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

Just seen the Legia coach’s response to their fans’ behaviour. Refusing to condemn the actions outside VP because of a lack of knowledge, falling back on saying how excellent they are as supporters. Not even calling out a small faction of them as thugs. 

I appreciate that he probably fears for his own safety, but I’m afraid that Polish football isn’t going to get away from this sort of thuggery without calling it out. Their club is complicit in the fan behaviour: Skysports is reporting that Legia did not respond to Villa’s requests for info about travelling supporters. 

For once, English football has some expertise to share here. This sort of behaviour must be called out by everyone in the game: it cant be glossed over or tolerated, even tacitly. There’s a difference between a hostile atmosphere and outright violence. 

 Legia fans have a reputation, they play up to it and the police responded in a manner that aimed to reduce violence. If their fans were allowed in the ground last night, the stories this morning would be about chairs being pulled up and Legia fans storming home seating areas. Police stood their ground and did not actively engage with their fans, even when goaded to do so. 

What’s going to happen now? The case is damning: Fans and property were put at risk. WM Police resource was deployed at a cost. Legia failed to cooperate with Villa in trying to mitigate any potential problems. What is UEFA going to do here? 

Edited December 1, 2023 by KevinRichardsonsMoustache

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I am inclined to agree otherwise I can't understand how very early fans didn't get in.

However inside the ground were very large numbers of stewards.  Literally rows and rows of them all standing there in the away end.  Not sure they would have been employed at great expense if the plan was to never allow them in.

I'm prepared to go with the theory that there were literally no tickets issued.  There were no fans rocking up an hour before kick off with their tickets before the mob arrived.  Which is a totally insane position for LW to take.

What was very odd to cap an very odd evening was at half time a lot of police in full riot gear with shields went into the Holte End, and then went out again.

What was that all about?

Edited December 1, 2023 by The Fun Factory

[StefanAVFC]

As far as I know they never formally gave an allocation. If Legia fans booked flights and hotels based on an assumption of 2k because that's the guideline from UEFA then they're idiots.  Especially as the risk for a reduced allocation is very high due to their persistent bad behaviour.

Then on top of that, for Legia to not give out the tickets beforehand, encouraging thousands to not only travel, but to try and force themselves in, is unacceptable. They deserve a long ban.

[Pongo's Socks]

2 hours ago, sidcow said:

Odd seeing that horses were there last night. 

It's been years. I remember seeing a police horse charge when we played Coventry and they were running amock in the street.  Scattered them like nine pins.  Scary and impressive at the same time. 

Was that the day they got relegated? I remember trying to get up to Witton Station from the holte and then saw the line of police horses charge. Like you say, scary to see, you wouldn't want to be in their way

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

What was very odd to cap an very odd evening was at half time a lot of police in full riot gear with shields went into the Holte End, and then went out again.

What was that all about?

Fancied a pie?

[stewiek2]

 

 

 

 

[It's Your Round]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Fancied a pie?

It’s the only way to get served in less than 20 minutes.