Violence outside Villa Park

[Mic09]

4 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

That simply is not true on any level. The difference over there is that the ultras have the upper hand and the police know that. Over here, that is not the case and the biggest and best "firm" is the police who were not going to give an inch of ground to them ...... which they couldn't handle !

Might add that many of the Poles who "travelled" did not come from Poland but from around the UK !!!

What isn't true? I am just relating what I was told by a Legia fan from Warsaw. It's not my thoughts. 

Trust me, the ultras do not have the upper hand in Poland. Police rule, and it's been the case for at least 10 years now.

The police in Poland is much tougher than english police, and have seen it all - they have experience in dealing with Legia, they do it on weekly basis. In Poland, if there was no ticket allocation, they wouldn't even get near the ground. 

Hence, I think someone made a mistake on organisational level. Why were travelling fans allowed anywhere near the stadium if they didn't have tickets? 

Sure many travelled from UK. There is a massive number of Poles here. But it's a 2 hour flight from Warsaw, and the flights go from city centre straight to Bham. Probably a quicker commute than fans driving from south of England. The fans I spoke with caught a flight yesterday morning to Stanstead. 

[Demitri_C]

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

The key points that are rumour are the repeating of a stabbing (which was doing the rounds last night, but I don't think there's anything to back it up, there were allegedly multiple stabbings at one point. Might be wrong but I suspect it's bollocks), as well as the claim that Legia refused to allocate tickets to encourage the actions we saw last night.

The one thing we do know is that the Legia fans once in that situation behaved terribly, particularly the ones we've seen launching shit at the police and the Villa fans, but I don't think it's helpful to blend the facts with the rumours. I'm sure we'll be seeing an investigation into exactly what happened last night.

I think thats the point @OutByEaster? was making your second paragraph.  Its not rumours they were animals and regardless how annoyed you are you do not behave in this manner.

If our fans did this kind of shit id expect us to get a ban and fine as its unacceptable behaviour.

Villa and legia have two different versions of events. Villa say 2nd nov legia are saying 20th nov. Make it public with evidence and put to bed who is lying

Edited December 1, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

What isn't true? I am just relating what I was told by a Legia fan from Warsaw. It's not my thoughts. 

Trust me, the ultras do not have the upper hand in Poland. Police rule, and it's been the case for at least 10 years now.

The police in Poland is much tougher than english police, and have seen it all - they have experience in dealing with Legia, they do it on weekly basis. In Poland, if there was no ticket allocation, they wouldn't even get near the ground. 

Hence, I think someone made a mistake on organisational level. Why were travelling fans allowed anywhere near the stadium if they didn't have tickets? 

Sure many travelled from UK. There is a massive number of Poles here. But it's a 2 hour flight from Warsaw, and the flights go from city centre straight to Bham. Probably a quicker commute than fans driving from south of England. The fans I spoke with caught a flight yesterday morning to Stanstead. 

If the police were as tough as you say their fans would be too scared to cause trouble. Why is it they go AZ and now villa and cause trouble. Cant be a coincidence?

[Mic09]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

If the police were as tough as you say their fans would be too scared to cause trouble. Why is it they go AZ and now villa and cause trouble. Cant be a coincidence?

Well, why do you think there is little to no trouble during games in Poland? Because Police have sorted it. 

To be fair, AZ was a bit of a joke on the dutch police side too.

The reason there was initial trouble there was because the mayor said it was a holiday in Alkmaar (some sort of battle/independence day) and said fans wouldn't be allowed in town very last minute. A bullshit excuse that is due to cause trouble. If they simply said 'DO NOT TRAVEL, YOU WILL NOT BE LET IN, THIS IS A UEFA MANDATE' maybe less issues would be caused. But a public holiday in Alkmaar so no foreigners can enter? That's BS.  

Have a look at videos of Dutch police hitting the owner of Legia. The guy runs a european football club form one of the main capitals in Europe and gets hit by police for no reason. It's BS.

Now, I should point out, Legia fans are dicks and always seem to have a problem with something. I dislike them with a passion, have done for years. They always look for excuses to cause trouble.

But, very often, the organisation behind the scenes it is a catalyst for trouble. 

[tomav84]

55 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It wasn't 2,000 people suddenly arrived at the ground in one block.  People would have arrived over a period of time eventually ramping up to 2,000.  Many people like to arrive at and get into the ground early. 

I'm sure many hundreds of people arriving were genuine fans just wanting to see the game. 

Picking out fans with tickets as they rock up should be fairly easy..... Show us your ticket. 

They clearly didn't allow a single person in, even if you got there an hour before kick off and allowed the mob to grow and grow mixing those there purely to cause trouble with some damn angry more "normal" fans and penning them in with presumably families with kids etc

As I said it was absolutely clear there was no plan and a lot of panic amongst the senior officers. 

read OBE's good summary. none of them had tickets as legia did not issue them out of protest. and hypothetically, if some did have tickets, it would've actually been quite difficult to sort this with such a large number without tickets looking to get into the ground by any means necessary.

do you really think that if the police said to them "right ladies and gentlemen, please form an orderly queue, we need to check who has tickets and who hasn't" that they would've done so? their behaviour has shown that they clearly wouldn't have done.

i actually think there was a clear plan. and that plan was that they were never coming into the ground. the only thing they possibly didn't plan for is the pockets of legia fans around the ground and in home sections

[bickster]

If LW as a club didn't distribute their tickets then they are complicit in what happened. That should be at least a 2 to 3 year ban from European competition.

[AlwaysAVFC]

45 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Wow. If that's true then it's an utterly insane decision by LW and would effectively guarantee the scenes which unfolded. 

It does make them very culpable, especially going with Villa's statement of them not able to have any dialogue with them.

I did wonder how they were allocating their tickets. You see Ultras often have some power within clubs and get some tickets to sell/distribute themselves. Which in itself could have caused disorder with some. Not knowing if they had a ticket but were expecting one, plus the ones that were never going to be able to get one. However if that's how it happened, then that's even worse as it does have a sense of encouragement from the club.

[meregreen]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

It wasn't 2,000 people suddenly arrived at the ground in one block.  People would have arrived over a period of time eventually ramping up to 2,000.  Many people like to arrive at and get into the ground early. 

I'm sure many hundreds of people arriving were genuine fans just wanting to see the game. 

Picking out fans with tickets as they rock up should be fairly easy..... Show us your ticket. 

They clearly didn't allow a single person in, even if you got there an hour before kick off and allowed the mob to grow and grow mixing those there purely to cause trouble with some damn angry more "normal" fans and penning them in with presumably families with kids etc

As I said it was absolutely clear there was no plan and a lot of panic amongst the senior officers. 

Legia we’re supposed to distribute their tickets outside the ground. They failed to do this. So no Legia fans had tickets. Some talk about their club colluding in order to force the police to let them all in. That worked out well for them didn’t it. There’s only one guilty group here, it ain’t the police, Aston Villa or anybody else than those Neanderthals, who thought they could do what they liked.

Edited December 1, 2023 by meregreen

[imavillan]

2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Blues fan I know text me saying they took the piss at Villa big time in and outside ground and it wouldn’t have happened at the blues as they would at least made an effort to give it them back. “ How very Villa “ he put at the end 

do your self a favour and block their numbers and sack em off.

You'll feel a whole lot better for it and all of a sudden you'll be able to have some sensible conversations.

[Demitri_C]

12 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Well, why do you think there is little to no trouble during games in Poland? Because Police have sorted it. 

To be fair, AZ was a bit of a joke on the dutch police side too.

The reason there was initial trouble there was because the mayor said it was a holiday in Alkmaar (some sort of battle/independence day) and said fans wouldn't be allowed in town very last minute. A bullshit excuse that is due to cause trouble. If they simply said 'DO NOT TRAVEL, YOU WILL NOT BE LET IN, THIS IS A UEFA MANDATE' maybe less issues would be caused. But a public holiday in Alkmaar so no foreigners can enter? That's BS.  

Have a look at videos of Dutch police hitting the owner of Legia. The guy runs a european football club form one of the main capitals in Europe and gets hit by police for no reason. It's BS.

Now, I should point out, Legia fans are dicks and always seem to have a problem with something. I dislike them with a passion, have done for years. They always look for excuses to cause trouble.

But, very often, the organisation behind the scenes it is a catalyst for trouble. 

Im not saying the dutch were completely innocent but look at how their fans behave. They may have been defending them selves if they were acting like Representatives for Wellingborough like last night.

Legia always trying to potray themselves as victims but no one has any sympathy for them.

Im sure not every polish club behaves like this, so i dont want to tarnish them all the same. But legia are a scummy club that should be kicked out of europe if they continue like this

 

[UpTheVilla26]

The official response form Legia is a disgrace. 

Blaming everyone but themselves. This isn't an isolated incident, they obviously have a deep rooted issue for this to keep happening and instead of throwing accusations around at Villa/Police/UEFA, they need to sort their own problems. 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

The official response form Legia is a disgrace. 

Blaming everyone but themselves. This isn't an isolated incident, they obviously have a deep rooted issue for this to keep happening and instead of throwing accusations around at Villa/Police/UEFA, they need to sort their own problems. 

Usually a European football ban, or a ban on away fans focussed the mind. 

If Villa fans repeatedly let the club down when on their travels I’d have no issue with a ban being put in place to stop us having any away allocation. It’s a privilege to watch your club play in Europe.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Genie

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Im not saying the dutch were completely innocent but look at how their fans behave. They may have been defending them selves if they were acting like Representatives for Wellingborough like last night.

Legia always trying to potray themselves as victims but no one has any sympathy for them.

Im sure not every polish club behaves like this, so i dont want to tarnish them all the same. But legia are a scummy club that should be kicked out of europe if they continue like this

 

Absolutely, they are idiots. No argument there.

One thing that should be noted is that originally, the ticket allocation was dropped to 890. This happened after almost 2k fans bought plane tickets, organised hotels and travel.

It's a shit show from many angles.

Legia fans are always stupid. The worst of polish football. Look at Lech which has a much better PR in Europe. Legia always are the victims.

BUT something wrong happened with organisation. Even the Legia owners and representatives protested and did not show up at the stadium because they thought what happened was unfair and is due to be a catalyst for trouble. 

[Paul33]

36 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Trust me, the ultras do not have the upper hand in Poland. Police rule, and it's been the case for at least 10 years now.

That is not what these "ultras" say or think and their social media groups make it very clear that they have the upper hand. I think the key is that their police may be able to wield their batons when confronting them but they lack the sort of intelligence our police have in terms of understanding and anticipating problems. Over there, ultras can go toe-to-toe in pre-organised confrontations without the police anywhere to be seen ..... that could never happen over here. Equally, the punishments over there for the sort of behaviour witnessed last night at VP are a slap on the wrist compared to what is dished out here with arrests and bans from future matches.

If you checked their social media groups last week, you would have seen what was coming. The plan was to show up in numbers, kick off and gain entry to the ground in order to keep them under control ..... that was the plan because it is what they are used to but if ever they come back here in the future, they will realise that our police are not like their police and kicking off is going to end badly for them !

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Absolutely, they are idiots. No argument there.

One thing that should be noted is that originally, the ticket allocation was dropped to 890. This happened after almost 2k fans bought plane tickets, organised hotels and travel.

It's a shit show from many angles.

Legia fans are always stupid. The worst of polish football. Look at Lech which has a much better PR in Europe. Legia always are the victims.

BUT something wrong happened with organisation. Even the Legia owners and representatives protested and did not show up at the stadium because they thought what happened was unfair and is due to be a catalyst for trouble. 

Im sure if us as a club had our tickets slashed to around 900 on less we would moan but wouldn't go to poland start attacking their fans. We would just get on with it and do the talking on the pitch.

With regards to hotel and flights. Why would you book and pay for hotels before your ticket has been issued? That sounds like utter nonsense from them and just trying to play as victims again.

If they came behaved themselves they would have got in and enjoyed the game. We had no issues with AZ or mostar fans. They wanted to come enjoy themselves.  Until they stop acting like animals then they will be treated better and get same treatment as them.

I dont blame the police at all for this. They did a remarkable job last night 

[The Fun Factory]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Absolutely, they are idiots. No argument there.

One thing that should be noted is that originally, the ticket allocation was dropped to 890. This happened after almost 2k fans bought plane tickets, organised hotels and travel.

It's a shit show from many angles.

Legia fans are always stupid. The worst of polish football. Look at Lech which has a much better PR in Europe. Legia always are the victims.

BUT something wrong happened with organisation. Even the Legia owners and representatives protested and did not show up at the stadium because they thought what happened was unfair and is due to be a catalyst for trouble. 

I thought the allocation was 1,002? It was dropped under police orders as they misbehaved at Alkmaar, and then kick off last night. I do have some sympathy for the normal away fans but they can't keep behaving like this and expecting to get a normal away allocation. It should have been up to Legia to refund the fans who couldn't go. Instead they refused to communicate with Villa even though it was expected trouble was going to happen.

Edited December 1, 2023 by The Fun Factory

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[Follyfoot]

21 minutes ago, imavillan said:

do your self a favour and block their numbers and sack em off.

You'll feel a whole lot better for it and all of a sudden you'll be able to have some sensible conversations.

Tut tut Vile, would never happen at Stans mate….

you mean diverting conversation of the above nature

[Mic09]

Just now, The Fun Factory said:

I thought the allocation was 1,002? It was dropped under police orders as they misbehaved at Alkmaar, and then kick off last night. I do have some sympathy for the normal away fans but they can't keep behaving like this and expecting to get a normal away allocation. It should have been up to Legia to refund the fans who couldn't go.

Absolutely. They always cause trouble. 

I guess if Villa was given 3k tickets to go to Milan and Madrid and all of a sudden that was cut by 2k, people would still travel. As soon as fixtures come out people arrange stuff so they get a place. If you are eligible for a ticket, you think you'd get one.

Like I said, any trouble is 100% of idiots from Legia. But, the whole thing wasn't handled well. Why not let them in 2 hours before the game, make sure there is no alcohol, and keep them in one space so that it's easier to control?

I don't get it, but I am sure there are smarter people than me in Police that made some calls on how to handle it. 

[Follyfoot]

11 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Absolutely, they are idiots. No argument there.

One thing that should be noted is that originally, the ticket allocation was dropped to 890. This happened after almost 2k fans bought plane tickets, organised hotels and travel.

It's a shit show from many angles.

Legia fans are always stupid. The worst of polish football. Look at Lech which has a much better PR in Europe. Legia always are the victims.

BUT something wrong happened with organisation. Even the Legia owners and representatives protested and did not show up at the stadium because they thought what happened was unfair and is due to be a catalyst for trouble. 

My understanding is Wizla are the best/worst depending how you view these things