Luis Suarez

[allani]

3 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Excellent, excellent post which tore apart my post like a bullet through a marshmallow. 

 

I feel a bit bad about that now.  I only hope that it made you feel more optimistic.  My main concern should Gerrard end up going to Liverpool in 2 seasons is that in the meantime he'll have given six or seven of our really promising youngsters their route into the first team / maybe even getting a couple of them into the brink of international call-ups and comes back and buys them off us just as they make that transition from prospects to great players.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, allani said:

I think it is just that our "here and now" has changed.  5 seasons ago it was about players who might keep us up and that was it (they didn't and we got ****ed with the length and cost of their wages), 2 seasons ago it was about players who might keep us up but who would stay around if we got relegated and give us another crack at getting back up, last year it was about trying to avoid the relegation battle / finish close to mid-table.  This year / next year we want to be top half / having a proper crack at Europe.  If a 23 year old, top 6 level player became available then I am sure Gerrard would be all over it.  Trouble is those players will be costing £75m at the moment.  I just think Coutinho and Digne were such good value (due to their particular circumstances) that we couldn't turn that choice down.  I'm not sure Digne would have been top of Gerrard's list 6 weeks ago as it would have been costing us north of £35m to sign him from Everton against their will.  I agree that he wants experience at a higher level (rather take someone who has played for the likes of Everton than a prospect from Brentford) and that signing a 23 year old player from a top team is potentially unrealistic.  However, I think if Gerrard had a choice between signing a player like Declan Rice over a player like Jorginho then he'd prefer the former but that if we were priced out of that he'd rather the latter than spending the same money on someone who has never played in the top division.  And with his name / profile he'd stand more chance of opening the conversation than our previous manager would have done (and I don't mean that as any slight on Dean). 

I agree.....its all a balancing act and as you say, who becomes available plays a huge part.

I am just frustrated, when I look around our league and see how many well established, defensive minded players that have settled in to various clubs and I am not talking just now, its been the case for some time....we have never really replaced Idrissa Gueye or Gareth Barry, adequately

We seem to have no trouble signing attack minded players, but defence minded players seems to elude us for some reason.

I am obviously hoping we can bring one or two in this window, but the CB looks a stretch to me, until the summer.

No6 should be a priority.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, allani said:

Couple of points in response.

Digne is not a short term signing.  At 28 he has 3 or 4 seasons left at this level easily.  If you assume that our strategic plan is looking forwards 5 years (which is pretty standard) then Digne could be expected to be playing for almost all of that period.  At the very worst that is mid-term planning.

Coutinho is also not an old player who is just plugging a hole for 18 months.  His loan signing is obviously short-term (as is any loan) as it only lasts 6 months.  But the fact that we seem to have negotiated everything that would allow us to buy him in the summer suggests that we are hoping that he is here well beyond May.  Let's assume we do buy him in the summer - then again he should have another 3 seasons at the top level - possibly more because much of his game is built on his speed of thought rather than just blistering pace.  So again we have him for most of the next iteration of our 5 year plan.

So the signings of Digne and Coutinho are a long way off short term strategies.  OK they are a bit different from the previous approach which seemed to be to buy players in their early 20s.  However, if you think about it the length of the "vision" behind the deal is actually almost exactly the same.  Take Matty Cash for example: I think he was 22 when we signed him so in theory you could argue that he has 10 years left in his career.  However, he was not / is not a player that would walk into the Top 4 / Top 6 clubs.  Therefore, it is quite reasonable to assume that he was also bought with a 4 - 5 year plan in mind.  We didn't necessarily expect him to become one of the best right backs in the world - but he was an upgrade on what we had and we could expect him to be a pretty decent PL right-back.  So we'd probably only planned on him being a major part of the first team for 4 or 5 years.  Which seems to be panning out - I suspect right back is probably getting higher on our list of priorities (especially given the way that Gerrard wants our FBs to play). 

So in terms of looking at our overall transfer strategy from a purely playing perspective I don't think that our strategy has changed that much.  We are looking for a core of players with a 4-5 year shelf-life in our first team supported by a strong academy set-up to bring through the next wave of talent and hopefully reduce the cost of having to keep on buying first team players.  In that regard signing Coutinho and Digne is not very different from signing Cash or Targett.  I guess you could say that Gerrard seems to have prioritised experience at the top level over growth potential.  However, the only way that Cash / Targett are longer term signings is if you are planning on them being your first choice fullbacks for the next 8 to 10 seasons - in which case you are basically accepting stagnation in terms of always being a mid-table team battling for 9th - 15th in the table.  Or you are taking the high risk gamble of spotting a group of Championship players who all become elite footballers.

The only thing to suggest that the above is not our plan was the rumour about Saurez (and so far that seems to be nothing but a rumour) and arguably the signing of Ings.  When you take into account the signings of Buendia and Bailey, alongside the emergence of JJ and possibly Chuk - I really struggle to compute how anyone thinks our approach has suddenly changed to one of short-term / panic signings.  Given the current standard of our squad I would far rather take a £6m "gamble" on a genuine, elite level footballer aged 28 who has struggled to play at one of the biggest clubs in world football than be signing a 22 year old player whose had a couple of good seasons at Swansea for £25 million in the hope that they might be the next big thing.

£33m for an elite level player who might only be "very good" after struggling at Barca and £25m on probably the best left-back in the country outside of the Top 6 is nothing like the dark old days of us signing 33 year old plodders on comparatively huge wages in the hope that might help us avoid the drop.  If Coutinho is 80% as good as he was 3 seasons ago then we can sell him next season for a profit easily - the market value for a 29 year old CL level attacking midfielder is easily £50m.  Digne was an absolute steal - if he hadn't fallen out with Benitez (and the rumours are pretty clear about who instigated that particular issue) then we wouldn't have been able to sign him for less than £35m.  So I am bemused how anyone can be anything other than delighted with the deals that we have done this window.

I agree.

Futhermore, I have every confidence, these elite players will help with the development of our youth...bound to have a knock on effect, raising the bar in terms of quality.

[allani]

Just now, TRO said:

I agree.....its all a balancing act and as you say, who becomes available plays a huge part.

I am just frustrated, when I look around our league and see how many well established, defensive minded players that have settled in to various clubs and I am not talking just now, its been the case for some time....we have never really replaced Idrissa Gueye or Gareth Barry, adequately

We seem to have no trouble signing attack minded players, but defence minded players seems to elude us for some reason.

I am obviously hoping we can bring one or two in this window, but the CB looks a stretch to me, until the summer.

No6 should be a priority.

 

Mate trust me I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.  It has been blindingly obvious to me that our biggest weakness has been central midfield for probably the last 3 seasons.  Our midfield was too weak in the season we should really have been relegated - Dougie came back from the Covid break like a man possessed.  Last season I think it was the reason that we ended up having so many runs where we were picking up no points.  The fact that Jack wasn't playing for parts of those spells seemed to convince many that creativity on the left was our issue rather than a weak centre.  There continues to be much debate about Dougie and McGinn.  For me this is largely because they are both having to play a role that (a) doesn't play to their strengths and (b) exposes their weaknesses.  Put in a quality, specialist player in there and both Dougie and McGinn immediately become MUCH better players.  Hell they both looked better when Nakamba suddenly started showing some ability - so just imagine how good they could be if we got in a player who was twice as good as Marvellous.

I do think (or at least I really hope!) that Gerrard knows that it is critical that the No 6 role is sorted and is sorted properly.  Our midfield is probably good enough to get us through this season if the right player is not available.  However, if that happens then 10th is probably about as good as it could get this season.  So that is down to him and the Board to agree on how much getting the right player now is worth - even if that means paying over the odds (and I think we are £25m in profit from the signings of Coutinho and Digne in terms of market value so over-spending to the tune of £10m still means we have had an awesome window).

I do think we will sign another CB this window - maybe not THE answer moving forwards and we might be tempted to sign a 30+ year old who can fill in should we get injuries / suspensions (which could lead to a VillaTalk meltdown!!).

 

[Aston_Villan4]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

and since the Ivanovic incident?....you said "Serial"

and Mee has broken how many legs?

He bit Chellini in 2014. That was his latest.

 

And if we’re going to be truly honest with ourselves. Our boy Mings is guilty of some suspect behavior on the pitch.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Aston_Villan4

[PaulC]

The final season at Liverpool was the best ive seen by any player in the Premier League ever. He went to Barcelona and in his first season they won the champions league and league, then he goes to Atletico and they win the league. Hes a winner who wouldnt want him on a football level. 

[messi11]

Best friends of Messi, 
Coutinho-Suarez-Messi

[Zatman]

50 minutes ago, allani said:

It beats only being linked with players that used to play for Brentford....

Manager before that liked his ex Hull players

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

He bit Chellini in 2014. That was his latest.

 

And if we’re going to be truly honest with ourselves. Our boy Mings is guilty of some suspect behavior on the pitch.

not saying its ok, but " serial" is stretching it....nothing in 8 years, sounds like rehabilitation to me or he's grown up.

besides there are some good butchers around B6.........."Hi Mr, can I have a bone for .....Suarez".....Butcher......." funny name for a dog"

Edited January 19, 2022 by TRO

[allani]

Just now, Zatman said:

Manager before that liked his ex Hull players

I have deleted our previous manager from my memory.  Or at least I tried to.  But yes 34 year old Hull players to 23 year old Brentford players to 28 year old Liverpool players is decent progression!  

[dotcomsimon]

Didn’t he get sent off for handball on the line too? Then cheered when the pen was missed 

[7392craig]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Gerrard will be looking at Fernando Torres soon

You reckon Robbie Fowler could still do a job?

[AVTuco]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

and since the Ivanovic incident?....you said "Serial"

and Mee has broken how many legs?

This team needs some edge. We're too nice. Suarez would be great.

[MWARLEY2]

Stuff like this makes me less worried for the future. Couthinjo Digne and maybe a Suarez shows us that Gerrard really does rate our kids imo. He isnt trying to buy young and develop. He wants the here and now type player because maybe half a dozen of our kids will save  the club a fortune . We cannot be buying young AND integrate the youth team. It just doesnt work . No experience would mean bad results . 

So bring Suarez in the summer for 12 months and give him the chance to help our team and also inspire our kids . 

[villan-scott]

Lads, lads. I’ve got a cracking joke. Do you think we should sign some old Liverpool players?? 

What are Hamann and Smicer up to these days? 

[Xela]

Two days ago I thought Suarez was a massive cheating dickhead.

Now I think he's a wonderful person and player and would love him at Villa! 

Gerrard is a fan of the person as well as the footballer:

Quote

‘I don’t think anyone ever looks forward to playing against Luis Suarez, he is a fantastic talent and a very dangerous player,’ 

‘He is a fantastic team-mate, probably the best player I have played with.

‘He’s a good guy, a family man away from the pitch, we keep in touch and have supported each other throughout our careers.’

 

[Eastie]

If luis Suarez comes for a year scores 25 and we get into Europe as a result then it’s a no brainier - he’s a goal scorer 

[HKP90]

2 hours ago, allani said:

I feel a bit bad about that now.  I only hope that it made you feel more optimistic.  My main concern should Gerrard end up going to Liverpool in 2 seasons is that in the meantime he'll have given six or seven of our really promising youngsters their route into the first team / maybe even getting a couple of them into the brink of international call-ups and comes back and buys them off us just as they make that transition from prospects to great players.

Nah, don’t feel bad. It was more a niggling worry that I’d had, and frankly it kind of helps that the counterargument was strong. Makes me feel better about SG.

[jacketspuds]

Obviously biting is a problem, but I would have no issue with him chowing down on Bruno Fernandes’ nadgers if it meant that the shitbag was subbed / retired.

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Obviously biting is a problem, but I would have no issue with him chowing down on Bruno Fernandes’ nadgers if it meant that the shitbag was subbed / retired.

Don't even care about the biting, this is a no kink shaming zone.