Luis Suarez

[nick76]

38 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

To me it sounds like attaining short term success to put on a manager’s CV.

Or we have a long term plan with all our youngsters, we have a medium term plan with one of the youngest squads but as Smith found out we had no near term plan and ultimately he lost his job because of it.  Gerrard is trying to balance it.

[Zatman]

10 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Suarez's version of events posted above is enlightening, I suggest you read it.

As noted elsewhere he is part black Uruguayan himself.

Not everyone accused of racism is a racist. I don't know whether he is or not, as I don't know him personally, but nor do you.

Suarez version of events when he also said some of his best friends are black. He was fighting with Evra all game why would he throw out a word that could be seen as an issue. He lived in England and Netherlands for the 5 years before where English is well spoken

Next game he showed he was a classy guy by refusing to shake Evras hands. Definitely an innocent man

I didn't want John Terry at Villa and I don't want Suarez and unless he is cleared Bissouma

Edited January 19, 2022 by Zatman

[7392craig]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nah mate, we’re definitely signing Mbappe!!

You’ve ruined it now!

[osmark86]

short term success for a manager's CV? sometimes we are a cynical set of fans.

[LondonLax]

Just now, osmark86 said:

short term success for a manager's CV? sometimes we are a cynical set of fans.

What do you mean 'sometimes'? 

[osmark86]

2 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

What do you mean 'sometimes'? 

good point

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, est1874 said:

Suarez's version of events posted above is enlightening, I suggest you read it.

As noted elsewhere he is part black Uruguayan himself.

Not everyone accused of racism is a racist. I don't know whether he is or not, as I don't know him personally, but nor do you.

What was enlightening about it? He even said he wasn't using the common term of endearment in a friendly way as they were arguing.

In Spanish we describe people by their characteristics is such an awful excuse. There is a world of difference between doing this with your friends and using 'descriptors' in a heated argument.

Some other examples of factual descriptions that would have been offensive in a similar situation:

• calling a fat person "fat arse"
• calling a disabled person "cripple"
• calling an Indian person a "curry eater"

So on and so on. It's fine if you're not brave enough to take a view on whether him doing that was likely racially motivated, but you can't then defend it as not racist in the same breath.

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

short term success for a manager's CV? sometimes we are a cynical set of fans.

Maybe because for the last 15 years we have struggled as a club because of our attempts at short term success 

[HKP90]

Just now, osmark86 said:

short term success for a manager's CV? sometimes we are a cynical set of fans.

Maybe, although given that one of the concerns when SG was brought in was that he's desperate to get the Liverpool job, his signings so far don't do anything to dissuade the possibility that he's going for that in the short term. It's certainly not a long term strategy. IF he does use an improved league placing to put himself in the shop window in the next season or so, we need to be damn sure he doesn't do it at our expense by shouldering us with massive wages. I'm OK with Coutinho as it's a short term loan first, but we need to be really careful here. I am loving what SG has done so far, but he's not filling me with confidence that he'll be here in the medium term.  

Besides, how does Grealish leaving a week before the new season not imbue cynicism? In no way did I think he'd leave for Man City, and that proved massively naive on my part. 

[est1874]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

even if you side with benefit of the doubt on the racism incident surely you're not on the fence as to whether or not hes a word removed?

he's a massive word removed!

So is Terry. So was Grealish, incidentally. Steven Gerrard himself is no saint. I'm sure we could expand on the list.

We're not a humanitarian organisation, and given the general character of the modern footballer, we can't really afford not to hire somebody solely on the basis of them being a bit of a word removed once. That rules out a sizeable proportion of professional players.

We can ponder his general behaviour as a younger man, but none of that has been on display in the latter years of his career, and what's being called into question here is whether his record as a "known racist" is clear, which is not at all clear to me; to anyone willing to do a bit of research and reading , it doesn't make much sense.

Every decision the club makes should be measured against the risk/reward factor, and I trust that our CEO, Sporting Director and Head Coach would do that with every signing. In my estimation, from watching him in La Liga in recent years, 34-year-old Suarez is no more likely to do harm here than anyone else.

Edited January 19, 2022 by est1874

[HKP90]

2 minutes ago, est1874 said:

So is Terry. So was Grealish, incidentally. Steven Gerrard himself is no saint. I'm sure we could expand on the list.

We're not a humanitarian organisation, and given the general character of the modern football we can't afford not to hire somebody solely on the basis of them being a bit of a word removed once.

We can question his general behaviour as a younger man, but none of that has been on display in the latter years of his career, and what's being called into question here is whether his record as a "known racist" is clear, which is not at all clear to me and to anyone willing to do a bit of research and reading doesn't make sense.

Every decision the club makes should be measured against the risk/reward factor, and I trust that our CEO, Sporting Director and Head Coach do that with every signing. Anyone who has paid any attention to La Liga in recent years surely must come to the conclusion that 34-year-old Suarez is no more likely to do harm here than anyone else.

Suarez will win the 'ballon shithouse' every year when Ibrahimovic retires. There is no-one in world football I detest more. Except Ben Mee. 

[est1874]

9 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

What was enlightening about it? He even said he wasn't using the common term of endearment in a friendly way as they were arguing.

In Spanish we describe people by their characteristics is such an awful excuse. There is a world of difference between doing this with your friends and using 'descriptors' in a heated argument.

Some other examples of factual descriptions that would have been offensive in a similar situation:

• calling a fat person "fat arse"
• calling a disabled person "cripple"
• calling an Indian person a "curry eater"

So on and so on. It's fine if you're not brave enough to take a view on whether him doing that was likely racially motivated, but you can't then defend it as not racist in the same breath.

None of those examples are at all the same as what he was describing, or what he said at the time. But if you don't understand the culture, how could you understand the issue.

[Steero113]

3 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Suarez will win the 'ballon shithouse' every year when Ibrahimovic retires. There is no-one in world football I detest more. Except Ben Mee. 

And Zaha. Guys an absolute fart coffin. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

Barcelona dumped him for being too old, Atleti picked him up and he proved he could still score. Fine.
 

But now, Atleti want to get rid because he’s basically stopped scoring. One goal from his 13 last games (the goal came against a team in the spanish third tier btw), recently went 11 games without a goal. Villa want to be a top 6 club, but no top clubs in Europe are lining up to get Suarez.

Seems like a case of celebrity blindness. If Ings had the same output as Suarez had recently, fans would want to give him away for free.

[TheMelvillan]

14 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

What was enlightening about it? He even said he wasn't using the common term of endearment in a friendly way as they were arguing.

In Spanish we describe people by their characteristics is such an awful excuse. There is a world of difference between doing this with your friends and using 'descriptors' in a heated argument.

Some other examples of factual descriptions that would have been offensive in a similar situation:

• calling a fat person "fat arse"
• calling a disabled person "cripple"
• calling an Indian person a "curry eater"

So on and so on. It's fine if you're not brave enough to take a view on whether him doing that was likely racially motivated, but you can't then defend it as not racist in the same breath.

yeeeaaaahhhhh.......I would never call anyone any of those things under any situation. but maybe thats just me 

[HKP90]

2 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

And Zaha. Guys an absolute fart coffin. 

Haha, I may steal that one. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The N word in question is apparently not deemed racist in Uruguay and is actually seen as affectionate.  Cavani got punished for using it too

That old chestnut. It's certainly deemed racist in this country and rightly so.

Nothing affectionate about that vile word, regardless of how it's pronounced. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

23 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Suarez version of events when he also said some of his best friends are black. He was fighting with Evra all game why would he throw out a word that could be seen as an issue. He lived in England and Netherlands for the 5 years before where English is well spoken

Next game he showed he was a classy guy by refusing to shake Evras hands. Definitely an innocent man

I didn't want John Terry at Villa and I don't want Suarez and unless he is cleared Bissouma

He’s a petulant child. He bites people when they wind him up ffs. He ain’t even got the brains to know what he said to Evra was wrong. 

I remember when he had a child and and he carried it out in to the packed out ground when it was a few weeks old.   You just don’t do that. 

Great player, complete idiot. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, est1874 said:

None of those examples are at all the same as what he was describing, or what he said at the time. But if you don't understand the culture, how could you understand the issue.

I have 0 problem with the use of the word negro as a translation for black and any suggestion he was using the n-word if he was saying negro are ridiculous.

The thing is the word black isn't offensive, but context changes a lot. There is a world of difference between calling someone a "black person" and a "black word removed".

Didn't the footage also show Suarez used the word repeatedly? More than happy to learn today if you want to teach me how culturally shouting someone's skin colour at them is a thing.

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Barcelona dumped him for being too old, Atleti picked him up and he proved he could still score. Fine.
 

But now, Atleti want to get rid because he’s basically stopped scoring. One goal from his 13 last games (the goal came against a team in the spanish third tier btw), recently went 11 games without a goal. Villa want to be a top 6 club, but no top clubs in Europe are lining up to get Suarez.

Seems like a case of celebrity blindness. If Ings had the same output as Suarez had recently, fans would want to give him away for free.

Suarez has scored 9 goals this season in all competitions, Ings and Watkins have scored 9 between them.