Steven Gerrard

[RicRic]

40 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Reading through this thread, I'm finding it really hard to understand, why you @TRO a veteran villa fan, would continue to back a manager, (not forgetting him being a liverpool player, no villa legend), who just cannot get a tune out of this team and is leading us towards relegation with the rubbish of the league. 1 year and nothings changed, why continue, I'm baffled?

Yeah that’s concerning if someone like @TRO who is held in high regard still doesn’t 100% feel that he should be removed from his position but i’ve seen more than enough to say the opposite and he should be gone with immediate effect.. nothing more to be said really hes nowhere near good enough.

We need maybe as the majority seem to be from there a foreign manager that plays with flair, tenacity and an attractive brand of football, tiki taka if you like️… has charisma and personality making the players feel confident and GERRARD does not have that you can clearly see it without having to go to Bodymoor. They need to have  a top scouting team they trust, really want tuchel (maybe unrealistic) , poch absolutely 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by RicRic

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

You are just suggesting change.....to eliminate things that maybe are not the source of the problem.....just saying.

On the other hand, you could be right, just changing manager, might just be the flip, they need.

costly excercise, if is it doesn't work, like last time...but hey ho.

I see you’re point but I don’t think anybody is expecting great things from the team with the players we have. Just better than 4 wins in 21 games.  That’s a pretty damning stat.

[Jas10]

 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Seems to be the same voices who didn’t want Bruce to go and were less forgiving to Smith that have nailed their flag to ship Gerrard as well. Absolutely baffling.

I am not in favour of changing managers per se...It should be the last resort.

I nail my flag to Aston Villa managers, irrespective of their background.....my favourite, was Ron Saunders (Scouser) but not for that reason.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I see you’re point but I don’t think anybody is expecting great things from the team with the players we have. Just better than 4 wins in 21 games.  That’s a pretty damning stat.

I agree with that.....no arguments from me.

He has simply lost too many games.

[Tommo_b]

Not sure why @TRO gets stick for being what I myself see as being quite neutral and open to debate.

Everyone has a different point where they say enough is enough, it’s all very subjective and Tro just plays devils advocate more then defending Gerrard from what I have read on here. 

[Dale]

Find it incredible he's still here. He can't be enjoying this, can he? 

[lexicon]

Just now, Dale said:

Find it incredible he's still here. He can't be enjoying this, can he? 

Look, @TRO has been on the forum for years, Dale - he might not be having a good time of it lately but I'm sure things'll pick up when we get a new manager in

Spoiler

 

[Wurzel]

Gerrard was bought in to bring instant improvement in the teams performance. We sacked a manager who was learning in the Prem because the owners wanted to speed up team improvement. Gerrard has been backed , given a year, and not only have performances and results not improved, but the players are not progressing in their performance levels. None of this can be disputed. He has failed on every measure to improve us, and while we waste matches giving him time to find his mojo, our competitors move further away from us. Gerrard is the one who has caused the disconnect with the fanbase. Gerrard is responsible for the dire performances. I cannot think of a single reason to keep him.

[The Fun Factory]

Re Gerrard and Bruce, I could see why they went for Bruce as he steadied the ship and had a history of getting Championships club promoted.

With Gerrard it made no sense as what we really needed was a experienced coach who could tweak the side to adjust to the post Grealish era. Instead we got  a bloke with less than 4 years of coaching who was reliant on his assistant to do the heavy lifting. Who then left in the summer.

[Keyblade]

28 minutes ago, sne said:

Absolutely fascinating how much this thread resembles the Steve Bruce thread.

Maybe one day given enough time Gerrard might turn into head coach close to the level Bruce is. Doubt he has the patience for it thou.

The next manager's thread will resemble the Dean Smith thread and the cycle will continue. Gonna be fun.

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

Then he’s failing as a manager.  The managers job is to get the best out of his players in the time it is needed.  You are also assuming everything is being done right at BMH which again is a big assumption.  What is the point of getting everything right in practice if it continually shown it isn’t right when it is required.  He uses the same players predominantly when he does have some options even with injuries.  A manager also adapts if things are working in training but not in matches whereas Gerrard rarely adapts.  Maybe he’s doing what he thinks is right at BMH but maybe it isn’t and another manager has different ways.  

The point is what is point of getting right every day in training only to barely ever get it right on the pitch, obviously that means not everything is right in training by default.

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

You are just suggesting change.....to eliminate things that maybe are not the source of the problem.....just saying.

“Maybe” does a lot of lifting in your argument.  I think almost everybody disagrees with this assessment now.  It’s quite clear he is a major problem whether you agree or not.

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

costly excercise, if is it doesn't work, like last time...but hey ho.

Seems costly to keep him and expect anything different after what 2022 has shown us.  We are on course for relegation fight, which could be even more costly.

 

Anyway I’m done for today, it’s baffling to have this narrative now still being expressed given everything.

Edited October 17, 2022 by nick76

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its funny one poster on here, who is totally for him being removed had the gaul, to suggest in his formative , days with us , to have patience with him.....how Bandwagons can affect folk.

Or, you know, their opinion changed after having a MUCH bigger sample size than what they had in the early days?

Bizarre.

[CarryOnVilla]

Why is he still here… what’s keeping him here? There isn’t a philosophy being formed… what we got as an identity right now, is all we got. It’s boring and it doesn’t produce goals. The more Stevie chats the more it’s coming across as he is tactically clueless. All his interview answers are empty emotionally driven platitudes such as, “I want big performances” well if you want that Steve how are you going to get it? He never expresses how he does his job, just what he wants. In that case we all can do that… what the club needs is someone to guild the players to achieve the “big performances” as of right now.. our big performances are boring 1 all draws with a shit Nottingham Forest. Cheers Steve

 

[romavillan]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

With all due respect, if he was doing all the right things at BMH, we'd be seeing a well coached team, a cohesive unit, players that look like they know their roles and the roles of those around them inside out. If we saw that and the results were the same (they most likely would not be but still) then we'd be failing due to genuinely not having the quality in key areas, individual errors etc. 

Watching us play over the last year, there's been incredibly few spells of football where the players look like they know what they are doing inside out, they look ponderous and unsure of where the next pass should go. They look disjointed, they are hardly ever compact, there's never a couple of easy options for whoever's on the ball, the off the ball movement is poor, we look laboured doing what would be automatic to a well coached team. 

I think it's fairly obvious that not all the right things are happening at BMH. A football great, Viciani, a precursor of Bielsa, Pep and Klopp style football used to say, "Do what you are good at, do it well and do it quickly" his whole style in the era of catenaccio and long ball counter attacks was born as he said he had limited players so he made them play a style of short easy passes with good off the ball movement so that player on the ball always had an option. The same organisation was applied to pressing to get the ball back. 

Watching well coached teams with limited players lose, it's easy to see the work done on the training pitch. I really do not see it with us and haven't for a while now. Last coaching set up that had it for us was Smith, O'Kelly and Terry working together.

Edited October 17, 2022 by romavillan

[imavillan]

32 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't disagree, with any of that Brian.....my beef is with claims, that are unsubstantiated.

I have clearly said, we cannot put our League status in jeopardy.

However, I still think we have problems other than just Manager, so if we do succumb to culling him, I hope the new guy gets the support, to make the changes required to give us hope.

I'm afraid it's already in jeopardy and becoming a greater risk with each passing day that Gerrard remains in charge.

I am amazed Purslow and co have not relieved him of his duties for all of his failings. 

[Marka Ragnos]

16 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Why is he still here… what’s keeping him here? ...

 

Answer: First of all, it's clearly not rational. A lot in sport isn't, is it? Purslow and the board have been reluctant to pull the trigger and call in the lawyers when they feel they made an excellent if somewhat untested appointment in November 2021. I don't think it's ego or unwillingness to admit they made the wrong decision. It's more that they genuinely and deeply believed Gerrard would, at last, get his shit together. Not unlike people not wanting to get a divorce when everyone else sees a marriage not working. It's not egomania, it's the disbelief, the feeling that maybe just maybe, the anguish of letting go of a dream. George Jones said it best, and yes, I'm saying that the saga is getting to be like an old country song:

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[AV82]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

You are just suggesting change.....to eliminate things that maybe are not the source of the problem.....just saying.

On the other hand, you could be right, just changing manager, might just be the flip, they need.

costly excercise, if is it doesn't work, like last time...but hey ho.

It's a lot less costly than changing the whole playing squad in the hope that Gerrard comes good. What a bizarre take.

[avfc1982am]

Why is there so many if but and maybes being debated?! The bottom line is he's a shit manager that has had 12 months to put some sort of stamp on a squad that everyone thought was underachieving under Smith. In a results based business it seems there are those that want to now dismiss the results and excuse someone who has in 12 months proven to not be up to the task. 

We lost yesterday 0-2. We didn't win the game or come close to winning the game, so I don't understand why there is a w***fest over a decent 45 mins that failed to yield a goal. 

10 players have been brought in since Gerrard arrived and the wage bill increased dramatically. Anyone claiming he hasn't been supported or had more than enough time, or patience from the fan base are talking out their arse. 

 

[Tomaszk]

40 minutes ago, TRO said:

What if he is doing all the right things at BMH .....all the things that a new manager would do....but the players are still not executing, what he asking, what then?

You are just suggesting change.....to eliminate things that maybe are not the source of the problem.....just saying.

On the other hand, you could be right, just changing manager, might just be the flip, they need.

costly excercise, if is it doesn't work, like last time...but hey ho.

It worked last time we had a clown managing us miles out of his depth. Near-on immediate improvement post-Bruce, followed by sustained success for 2+ years.

It's very easy to see the coaching issues we have. 

There is no negative to sacking Gerrard. It should have been done in the summer. The evidence is there for all to see.