The manager situation

[tomsky_11]

37 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

yes we have had some injuries but so have other teams. We have not been playing fantastic all season .

I don't think we've had it at all as bad as other teams. Only teams with fewer everpresent starters are Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City. I'm going to guess this is more down to intentional rotation of squads with much greater depth and a lot of enforced absenses. The only teams we the same number of everpresent starters are Liverpool (better squad rotation) or teams below us in the table (Watford and Newcastle). Probably also worth noting the two of the teams with the most consistent starting line ups are ones we've just faced in WHU (8 everpresents) and Wolves (5 everpresents and 11 players starting 7 or more games). I think its fair to say enforced absences have impacted us more than most, especially it probably impacted most in our first three games which were probably our most winnable. Ironically, the need to get some consistency in the starting lineup has probably cost us too, as to only times we've made no changes from the previous game were Spurs and Arsenal, games in which us playing 352 probably suited the opposition more that us.

43 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

Man U we rode our luck Everton we had a short spell with Bailey on otherwise we were dreadful against them .

IMO it's unfair to write off winning away to Utd for the first time in forever, creating most of the better chances, restricting them to mostly poor efforts from distance and keeping a clean sheet as riding our luck. Disagree Everton was dreadful before Bailey as well, it was an even game for 60 and then killed them last 30. Not sure the first 60 were helped by McGinn being in a daze for half of it before had to go off either. And hard to knock another clean sheet.

44 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

We have been really poor as a team since Wolves debacle when we fell apart . I appreciate confidence is low but it’s the managers responsibility alone  to tactically put the the team on the park. We have looked devoid of attacking ideas  clueless defensively . The players look lost.

I missed the Wolves game so can't really speak for the perfomance, but from seeing the highlights and speaking to others it sounded like a draw was probably fair, we were somewhat affected by late injury/fitness enforced changes that hindered ball retention and defensive solidity and all 3 of there goals had elements of luck to them, the last one especially. Wolves it would seem being one of the more settled teams in the league and now 3rd in the form table suggest this game wasn't as easy as some perhaps thought either.

46 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

If we had 15 players out against WH we would have lost , yes we had a spell when we went down to ten men but we were soon easily picked off on the counter attack .

Disagree with this, we were improving before half time and I think every chance of getting something from this one before the sending off. It wasn't like we gave up high percentage chances for their first half goals either. We had 30 mins with 10 men before they scored, in this time we created the best chances so we were hardly soon picked off. When they did break for their third we were effectively down to 9 players with Nakamba off, just after our own decent counter had been stopped by the ref, and you could argue at least one of their players involved in the goal might have been given a red card just before it on another day with another ref. More fine margin stuff that ain't on Smith.

47 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

I’m all for Dean been given time but we have to see the basics return to the team structure . He is responsible for the team performance and results . He is responsible for the coaches and the dressing room.

I agree we need to get back to a shape and style of play that we've seen be effective before under Smith, not just and Villa but multiple times when his Brentford side demolished us. And I fully expect this to come once we actually have some stability in terms of availability of our best players. Sure he's responsible for the team selection and the way we want to play, but that doesn't mean these things aren't also impacted by things outside of his control, of which I feel there have been many. And it's not like we haven't seen several dramatic upturns in form under Smith before after periods affected by key player absences.

Do I agree with every decision Smith has made so far this season? No. Do I understand how he came to most of these decisions even if I disagree with them? Yes. I personally wouldn't have wanted us to move to a 532/352 but given the opposition when we switched and the players we had available I get it. I wouldn't have stuck with it so long after, two wins from three and a decent performance in the defeat and I can understand why he stuck with it for Spurs given this and the need to get some consistency. Wolves was a system match so made sense to stick with it. Annoyed we didn't change it for Arsenal but feel we might have if Bailey was fit enough to start. At least he changed it at half time and we looked a lot better after that, though I'd have liked to him to have risked changing it sooner by moving Axel into DM given how bad that first half was.

47 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

The dean smith villa fairytale holds nothing for me it’s a results business he has to turn the  current slump around quickly, hopefully with  a good performance and 3 points against Southampton Friday. 

I'm not sure results in the last 4 games, given the issues we've had and the opposition we've faced, justifies complete ignoring what Smith has achieved with use so far, which is quite substantial given our recent mangerial history. And as I mentioned before, I don't think the net result of six points from the last six games is that far off the expectations of most on this forum before those games, so is surprising to me how much opinion seems to have shift against Smith.

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Where and when did they publish these targets?

They didn’t, as you know. Only one of them has been stated, which I pointed out.

This was a list of the likely targets, which should have been (maybe it wasn’t) obvious from the context of the discussion I was having with another poster. I asked if they see these probable targets any differently if mid table this season would not be on the original schedule.

56 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Getting promoted from the Premier League in 19/20 seems a tad unrealistic

No but promotion from the Championship in 19/20 was the aim of the board as stated by Purslow, as I wrote above.

Edited November 3, 2021 by fightoffyour

[tomsky_11]

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Which is fair enough, I suppose. Expectations have been clouded by ambitions lately and it's a little difficult to see the wood for the trees sometimes. I don't think the panic to progress caused by the Newcastle takeover has helped either. 
 

Not sure Newcastle are doing a whole lot either way. Their squad is still pretty weak and not sure they'll be able to improve it a whole lot in Jan. Not sure any of the managers being linked to them are capable of much better either.

[Stevo985]

Just now, fightoffyour said:

No but promotion from the Championship in 19/20 was the aim of the board as stated by Purslow, as I wrote above.

Ohhh sorry I misread your post.

I thought you'd just got your years mixed up so I was trying to be funny  

[PussEKatt]

All I can say is that with players like Martinez,Mings,Cash,Ings,Watkins,Luiz,Mc Ginn etc we should be a lot higher than 15th,so,if its not the players then who is to blame ? 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

As in Dean Smith thread:

Quote

From the The Athletic:

‘Owners Nassef Sawiris, who takes a daily interest in Villa, and Wes Edens are not ready to press the panic button just yet, but sources suggest a Villa defeat at Southampton on Friday night could lead to a review period during the international break.’

 

‘The majority of the players are understood to be behind the head coach. It is understood that the players did not feel the 3-5-2 formation was beneficial to their game.’

 

‘Mings was understood to be furious at the decision (to be dropped), announced to him 24 hours in advance. He cut a dejected figure during the warm-up and sat with a face like thunder until called upon to fill in for the red-carded Ezri Konsa.’

 

‘Carney Chukwuemeka is no closer to signing a new Aston Villa contract.’

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[hippo]

Just now, PussEKatt said:

All I can say is that with players like Martinez,Mings,Cash,Ings,Watkins,Luiz,Mc Ginn etc we should be a lot higher than 15th,so,if its not the players then who is to blame ? 

The problem is that the squad looks better than it is - because we have many wide players who can't all play at the same time - and there's a reasonable body of opinion that ings/Watkins can't play together.

So a lot of the time we are as last season - without Jack. The idea that the players purchased replace him has backfired spectacularly.

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

As in Dean Smith thread:

 

So they are fully behind him - but might not be if we lose on Friday.  Hardly unequivocal backing !!!!!!

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

That worries me too and we've been here before with Lerner and his '5 year plan'.

Purslow is a mere PR puppet to the owners. We had one before who posted on this forum over 15 years ago.

Back then they were a big fan of throwing everything in Nicola Keye's direction.

I’m not sure Deano can turn it around this time and I think that he is unlikely to be our long term manager.
 

Looking back on comments made by Purslow, who I agree is more or less a gofer to NSWE, the hierarchy were disappointed with the second half of the season. I think they were tempted to make a change in the summer. The last two games may have helped him a little but largely I think the Grealish situation probably saved him. The reason being that they viewed that as disruptive enough without adding a new manager into the mix. 
 

I’m sure they have plans, we’re a different animal now, hopefully, than under the last 3 owners. I would imagine that the hope is that Dean can turn this around and so we can make a smooth transition next summer. Both for the club and Dean’s sake that would be the best scenario. I know they made the change mid season when he came in, but I think they’d more or less written that season off and the plan was for Dean to build a promotion team. Victim of his own success? Maybe. 
 

I believe they are both hoping for a turnaround and at the same time looking for a successor. They don’t want a panic move, but they don’t want another relegation battle either. They want us to project an image of sleeping giants on the up, not sleeping giants constantly dozing off. 
 

Do they trust Purslow to get it right? If so he’d better not fail. Or is he just a front and they make decisions based on others input, who are less in the limelight. NSWE don’t seem to covet publicity, which probably makes Purslow the perfect foil. 

[IrishVilla10]

3 hours ago, tomav84 said:

the ones that put 'sack him now' puzzle me. have we not seen from newcastle how much worse it can be when you sack a manager with no one lined up?

you can't see who voted for which, but i put back for the foreseeable. he's turned it around before, he'll do it again.

Does this just become our normal under smith, our seasonal slump. How can we progress when we rely on one half of the season being better than the other. 

[tomsky_11]

27 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

All I can say is that with players like Martinez,Mings,Cash,Ings,Watkins,Luiz,Mc Ginn etc we should be a lot higher than 15th,so,if its not the players then who is to blame ? 

The players listed have only started half our games together this season. This was the run from Everton to Arsenal. We got 6 points from this run. As mentioned before this would seem to be broadly in line with what more than half the forum expected prior to those games. Also the list ignores our 3 best wide options, Bailey, Buendia and Traore, who have 7 starts between them. 6 of those were Buendia, only half of those were playing wide.

[tomav84]

22 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Does this just become our normal under smith, our seasonal slump. How can we progress when we rely on one half of the season being better than the other. 

it's a fair point...i just feel there are enough mitigating factors to this particular slump to give him a chance

[AvfcRigo82]

38 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m not sure Deano can turn it around this time and I think that he is unlikely to be our long term manager.
 

Looking back on comments made by Purslow, who I agree is more or less a gofer to NSWE, the hierarchy were disappointed with the second half of the season. I think they were tempted to make a change in the summer. The last two games may have helped him a little but largely I think the Grealish situation probably saved him. The reason being that they viewed that as disruptive enough without adding a new manager into the mix. 
 

I’m sure they have plans, we’re a different animal now, hopefully, than under the last 3 owners. I would imagine that the hope is that Dean can turn this around and so we can make a smooth transition next summer. Both for the club and Dean’s sake that would be the best scenario. I know they made the change mid season when he came in, but I think they’d more or less written that season off and the plan was for Dean to build a promotion team. Victim of his own success? Maybe. 
 

I believe they are both hoping for a turnaround and at the same time looking for a successor. They don’t want a panic move, but they don’t want another relegation battle either. They want us to project an image of sleeping giants on the up, not sleeping giants constantly dozing off. 

Do they trust Purslow to get it right? If so he’d better not fail. Or is he just a front and they make decisions based on others input, who are less in the limelight. NSWE don’t seem to covet publicity, which probably makes Purslow the perfect foil. 

Spot on Dave.

[Delphinho123]

I've voted to sack him if we lose to Southampton. I felt dirty pressing the button but we're plummeting towards a relegation fight and there are so many things wrong at the moment. 
I hope he pulls through. 

[Kingman]

I think we will give him the next 3 games,

We then play 8 games in 32 days for the new coach's to assess the squad in time for the January window opening. 

[IrishVilla10]

19 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

it's a fair point...i just feel there are enough mitigating factors to this particular slump to give him a chance

There’s definitely an argument for it, I think I have the blinkers on now though tbh. After three years we should have a core group capable of playing for the manager, I can’t handle another 90 minutes of Mings to Targett to Mings then hoofed up the line on Friday. 

[pete101]

For me , keep him for Southampton game and after that win draw or lose we make a change, that gives the replacement the international break time to come in and get things sorted

[Zatman]

Newcastle with all the money in the world are on Week 3 of trying to find a new manager. Spurs hired a manager 4 months after they initially wanted him. 

Its really not that simple to arrange a quality manager to come in immediately 

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, Spoony said:

I don’t think finding a bit of form will solve anything. Relationships seem to have soured horribly between the coaches, players and fans. 

Has it? I haven’t sensed anything of the sort from fans at VP, I think the vast majority are still behind him. 
 

Over the years I’ve found that the feelings online can differ massively from that at VP. 

[The Fun Factory]

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Newcastle with all the money in the world are on Week 3 of trying to find a new manager. Spurs hired a manager 4 months after they initially wanted him. 

Its really not that simple to arrange a quality manager to come in immediately 

Top level managers are increasingly picky now when they pick their next 'project' (never a club). They are all loaded and often living off a nice paid settlement from their previous job.