The manager situation

[KMitch]

1 hour ago, tomsky_11 said:

I'm not sure results in the last 4 games, given the issues we've had and the opposition we've faced, justifies complete ignoring what Smith has achieved with use so far, which is quite substantial given our recent mangerial history. And as I mentioned before, I don't think the net result of six points from the last six games is that far off the expectations of most on this forum before those games, so is surprising to me how much opinion seems to have shift against Smith.

Great post overall.  To respond to your last point, I don't think the overall opinion on Smith has shifted as much as Villa Talk and the media would have you believe.  We don't have an angry mob picketing BMH calling for Smith's head or throwing cabbages at him, like we've done with some of our previous managers that the overwhelming majority of us have wanted out.  There has always been an extremely vocal minority who has criticized Smith every time we've hit a rough patch in form, but 4 losses on the bounce has us all feeling a bit frustrated at the moment.  The big question this time around is how will Smith and the players respond to the media pressure which is starting to build?  We've always had Grealish in the past to have a moment of brilliance or two to lift the team and create that belief we can turn things around, but we don't have that luxury anymore.  We need someone to step up and prove a point.

[tomsky_11]

27 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I left out Bailey and Traore on purpose because they have hardly played and I did not include Buendia because IMHO he has not played up to his standard,yet

Sure, my point being any team missing the majority of its creative function for most of the season so far would be struggling. 15th isn't unrealistic given this. And Buendia absolutely hasn't been up to standard yet, but has also only had 3 starts playing wide right in the position he played so well for Norwich. And he's got 1 goal 1 assist in the 228 mins he's played when starting in this position for us. That's not a bad return.

[PussEKatt]

7 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said:

Sure, my point being any team missing the majority of its creative function for most of the season so far would be struggling. 15th isn't unrealistic given this. And Buendia absolutely hasn't been up to standard yet, but has also only had 3 starts playing wide right in the position he played so well for Norwich. And he's got 1 goal 1 assist in the 228 mins he's played when starting in this position for us. That's not a bad return.

I hear what you are saying and I respect your opinion but IMHO DS is too inexperianced to make us any more than a mid table team.I mean he has only managed 2 Championship teams before us yet everyone seems to think that he has the knowledge to take us into the top 6,if getting into the top 6 were that easy 75% of managers would be capable of it.

[DaveAV1]

13 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Top level managers are increasingly picky now when they pick their next 'project' (never a club). They are all loaded and often living off a nice paid settlement from their previous job.

That rules Brucie out with his £8m severance package. That’s a lot of kebabs to put away. He’ll have to pull his socks up. 

[tomsky_11]

11 minutes ago, KMitch said:

Great post overall.  To respond to your last point, I don't think the overall opinion on Smith has shifted as much as Villa Talk and the media would have you believe.  We don't have an angry mob picketing BMH calling for Smith's head or throwing cabbages at him, like we've done with some of our previous managers that the overwhelming majority of us have wanted out.  There has always been an extremely vocal minority who has criticized Smith every time we've hit a rough patch in form, but 4 losses on the bounce has us all feeling a bit frustrated at the moment.  The big question this time around is how will Smith and the players respond to the media pressure which is starting to build?  We've always had Grealish in the past to have a moment of brilliance or two to lift the team and create that belief we can turn things around, but we don't have that luxury anymore.  We need someone to step up and prove a point.

Yep, fair point. Just surprised discussion has got this far and the results of poll here, plus talk in media, both established and social, this week. Despite having season ticket I've been unable to get to a game since Brentford so not got much view from the stands beyond the mates I go with who also seem to be against sacking any time soon.

[KMitch]

Just now, PussEKatt said:

I hear what you are saying and I respect your opinion but IMHO DS is too inexperianced to make us any more than a mid table team.I mean he has only managed 2 Championship teams before us yet everyone seems to think that he has the knowledge to take us into the top 6,if getting into the top 6 were that easy 75% of managers would be capable of it.

To be honest, I think Pep, Mourinho, Klopp, Ancelotti, & Conte would struggle to get us into the top 6 with the squad we have at the moment...  Also, look at the managers are in the clubs around us who have the experience you're calling for and have managed top 6 clubs (Moyes, Rafa, & Rodgers).  Do you really think any of them could get this team into the top 6?

[Spoony]

2 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Do you have information on this or this is a wild stab in the dark?

Body language always looks worse when you lose. I think they should have tried to manage expectations a bit better rather than constantly talking about Europe in the summer. Another year of consolidation always looked the more likely option but sounds less sexy.

No I don’t have any info. Just basing this on how the players are acting on the pitch and acting towards the manager. Also the sudden loss of JT and O’Keefe, the general vibe that just seems to exist. You can just tell when things aren’t sitting right. I mean you could be correct and it just appears worse because we are losing, but my gut feeling is everything has fallen apart.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

IMHO Watkins and Ings cant play together,so why are we playin with 2 up front and why did we buy Ings ?sureley someone like L.Gabbon would be a better choice as a backup to Watkins and keep playing him as a lone striker.

There is no need for all the wide players to play at the same time,especially as most of the wide players we bought are right sided.  

That was my point. We have a lot of players who can't play at the same time. Therefore the manager doesn't have as good as first 11 as last season.

[PussEKatt]

3 minutes ago, KMitch said:

To be honest, I think Pep, Mourinho, Klopp, Ancelotti, & Conte would struggle to get us into the top 6 with the squad we have at the moment...  Also, look at the managers are in the clubs around us who have the experience you're calling for and have managed top 6 clubs (Moyes, Rafa, & Rodgers).  Do you really think any of them could get this team into the top 6?

To be perfectly honest,yes I do.I think this team is very capable of a top 6 finish.Like I said before I just dont think DS is capable.I wont go any further than that because I have posted 2 answers to this question ( my opinion only ) in the DS thread and both times there were posters all over the place defending DS.So,as I said I have made my opinions known but the majority of posters on here disagree with me ( fair enough ) I will never change their opinion and they will never change mine.I suppose the proof will be to see where we are at the end of the season and if DS is still with us.For me personally,I hope not because I cant see us bieng any more than a mid-table team,making up the numbers under DS.

Im off to bed now,so will answer you tomorrow.

[KMitch]

26 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Top level managers are increasingly picky now when they pick their next 'project' (never a club). They are all loaded and often living off a nice paid settlement from their previous job.

It's not only that, they only go to clubs with a short term aim to "win now" instead of building for the future.  Look at the awful short-sighted signings on terrible 5-6 season deals teams make for players that these managers just had to have, but after the manager fooks off to the next "project" the next manager doesn't favor these ones and the club struggles to shift them.  Rinse and repeat over and over and the next thing you know, you have an unbalanced squad of aging overpaid specialists with 2-3 actual quality players (Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, etc.), and the club struggling to balance the books.  

[tom_avfc]

Just now, PussEKatt said:

To be perfectly honest,yes I do.I think this team is very capable of a top 6 finish.Like I said before I just dont think DS is capable.I wont go any further than that because I have posted 2 answers to this question ( my opinion only ) in the DS thread and both times there were posters all over the place defending DS.So,as I said I have made my opinions known but the majority of posters on here disagree with me ( fair enough ) I will never change their opinion and they will never change mine.I suppose the proof will be to see where we are at the end of the season and if DS is still with us.For me personally,I hope not because I cant see us bieng any more than a mid-table team,making up the numbers under DS.

Im off to bed now,so will answer you tomorrow.

There isn't anybody in the world who is going to get this squad into the top 6. If that's what you're expecting then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. 

As it is a mid-table season is probably what this squad is capable of. While we're a few points off midtable I don't see the season as a disastrous one especially given the quality of the teams we've played against so far this season. We'll see what happens and if it looks like we'll get drawn into a relegation scrap then I'm sure Smith will go. Until that's the case I'm not sure what the rush to change the manager is all about to be honest.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, PussEKatt said:

To be perfectly honest,yes I do.I think this team is very capable of a top 6 finish.Like I said before I just dont think DS is capable.I wont go any further than that because I have posted 2 answers to this question ( my opinion only ) in the DS thread and both times there were posters all over the place defending DS.So,as I said I have made my opinions known but the majority of posters on here disagree with me ( fair enough ) I will never change their opinion and they will never change mine.I suppose the proof will be to see where we are at the end of the season and if DS is still with us.For me personally,I hope not because I cant see us bieng any more than a mid-table team,making up the numbers under DS.

Im off to bed now,so will answer you tomorrow.

Of our starting 11 on Sunday just Martinez and Bailey are top 6 players maybe Konsa if he regains his form

Thats it

[tomsky_11]

6 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I hear what you are saying and I respect your opinion but IMHO DS is too inexperianced to make us any more than a mid table team.I mean he has only managed 2 Championship teams before us yet everyone seems to think that he has the knowledge to take us into the top 6,if getting into the top 6 were that easy 75% of managers would be capable of it.

Sure, he hasn't managed a top half PL team before, nevermind top 6. Don't think that means he's not capable of it though. Has he ever managed one of the 6 best squads in the country in any season? Or even close to it. We've certainly never had that. We were probably due mid table last season with team we had and achieved that comfortably. Points wise we were much better than our position suggested as well. Only Premier League team to finish as low as 11th with that many points. Would have got us 7th/8th in average season I think.

What he has proved with us IMO is that he can consistently achieve or overachieve on the targets he's set. Until he is no longer consistently doing that, after any significant mitigating factors are taken into account, I don't see why we'd consider replacing him.

[Dave_jW]

To be honest I put the blame for this slump in form on both Lange and Smith. They didn't address the overriding issue in midfield in the summer. Think that will ultimately cost Smith his job.

[PussEKatt]

I just think that we should be aiming for a top 6 finish and as I dont think DS is able to do that then,obviously the sooner we get a manager that is capable of it then the sooner we will get there.

Do you really think that the team we put out in our last 4 games were that bad that we deserved 4 defeats.Do you really think that these players are that bad that winning 3 games out of 10 is all they are capable of.If this IS the case then we are going down.If this IS NOT the case then why are we 15th ?.

And,thats it.Im off to bed. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

13 minutes ago, KMitch said:

To be honest, I think Pep, Mourinho, Klopp, Ancelotti, & Conte would struggle to get us into the top 6 with the squad we have at the moment...  Also, look at the managers are in the clubs around us who have the experience you're calling for and have managed top 6 clubs (Moyes, Rafa, & Rodgers).  Do you really think any of them could get this team into the top 6?

To be fair, thats one way of looking at it.

The other way of looking at it, is that some of those managers, would have had a different squad and approach, or sign/prioritise different types of players since they have been here, which could have seen the unit be more effective.

So this wouldn't necessarily have been " the squad "

[Spoony]

Incidentally I haven’t chosen an option as none of them really apply to my views. I’d only bother sacking him if real quality was available. 

[villa89]

Lucien Favre. 

[Spoony]

17 hours ago, regular_john said:

Best manager we've had since MON.

 

- Broke all time club record winning streak 

- Promoted with less than a season in charge 

- Kept us in the prem, making us only the 5th side promoted via the play offs to stay up 

- Rebuilt the whole squad, top to bottom, with a growing emphasis on bringing through talented academy players

- Cup final 

- Great wins against Liverpool (7-2), Chelski, Arsenal (the double), United (first OT win in over a decade)

 

So, so many highlights in just 3 and a bit years. In my opinion, he's done more than enough to earn our trust and patience. We've tried chopping and changing managers and it's gotten us absolutely nowhere in the past decade. 

 

Keep the faith!

Must say I find this post convincing 

[WakefieldVillan]

Voted to keep him for the foreseeable...

But things need to pick up very quickly and he has to address a fair few issues - such as the amount of goals we are conceding, curbing the soft underbelly of our team,  choosing a settled formation, but ultimately by winning some games of football - Quickly. 

I think the fact that we have lost 4 out of 4 has put more pressure on him than the results overall, although no one can say it's been a good start to the season because it clearly hasn't - I think we have (he has) been very unlucky with being unable to field certain players at certain times and it was a bit of a disruptive pre-season which clearly hasn't helped matters. To be fair to Dean, he hasn't really used this as an excuse and it's his honesty before and after games that I like the most about him (though there were comments made post match of both the Arsenal & West Ham games that I didn't agree with - Maybe that's down to the pressure?!)

Overall I think he's done a very decent job for us and deserves up until the start of the January window - If at that stage we are in the bottom 3 or hovering around it and we see no improvement in performances / results then of course he will have to go. 100%.

I won't lie some of my reasoning may come from the heart not the head, I love having a true Villa man at the helm, there is sooo much wrong with the modern game right now and my love for the game has diminished considerably but having an AVFC man in charge is one thing I love. I just hope that he can turn it around but not convinced he will because if we lose on Friday we then have Brighton at VP and should we go a goal down there and it will probably turn ugly - and we've been there before...

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by WakefieldVillan