The manager situation

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it was either/or - we tried to sign Ward-Prowse after we'd bought Ings.

For me the big failing in our summer was not getting JWP and not having an alternative lined up when the deal didn't go through - I think ultimately that might cost the manager his job.

 

I thought buying ings was right.

Personally, I thought it was a need before this summer, hindsight is a great aid...but Sanson, was the signing that was possibly misguided and a more appropriate type of midfielder chosen.

as we haven't seen him, its easy to say, I accept that......but he was the wrong type for me.

[OutByEaster?]

If Dean does go in the next week or so, I think Lange should follow soon after.

 

[John]

34 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Neil Warnock it is then. He can even run his ride on over the first training team pitch after lunch. Too much of this fancy modern stuff creeping in. Let’s get back to basics!

Or how about the following dream management trio?

  

[thabucks]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If Dean does go in the next week or so, I think Lange should follow soon after.

 

Why can I ask ? 

[OutByEaster?]

8 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Why can I ask ? 

Because our shortage of quality in midfield is the heart of our issues, and the shortage of quality in midfield is more to do with Lange's failures in the summer than Smith's shortcomings in wringing performances out of what we have.

 

[The Fun Factory]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If Dean does go in the next week or so, I think Lange should follow soon after.

 

The last thing we need is to chuck everything in the bin and start again. This is the nearest thing we have got to stability for years even if the summer transfers have been a mixed bag so far.

[jjaacckk91]

Take the results out of the question.

Watford- absolutely awful performance 

Newcastle- comfortable but nothing particularly great, Newcastle have since been dreadful which adds some perspective.

Brentford-  laboured draw, we had a lot of players out so was seen as a good point. But we again didn't play 'well'

Chelsea- played well, Chelsea far more clinical 3-0 was harsh but they just have better players.

Everton- again looked okay but bailey made the difference with his unreal cameo.

United- just a really solid team performance, was difficult to pick anyone in particular out but we just looked ready for what they had.

Tottenham - we were poor, very disjointed especially the passing

Wolves - up by two and cruising and we absolutely collapsed, totally inept by the end.

Arsenal - THE worst first half we have put out in a long long time, absolutely disgraceful, we we better in the second half but still outplayed.

West ham - not as pathetic as arsenal but still very poor, couldn't pass, all hoof, even the bright sparks of bailey were exceptionally quiet.

Summary- I put the start down to pre season, I thought we got going but somehow we have degraded into so much worse.

The concern for me is the lack of 'good' performances and the abundance of 'dreadful' performances(and this is no exaggeration these have been **** atrocious this season)

I'd say Smith probably has these two games to fix it, so far I think all the results have been pretty accurate representations of the games(bar maybe wolves) and we are 10 from 10 very much relegation battle form, but we have also been uncompetitive for about 4.5 of our 10 games, and it's that which is just unacceptable.

 

[PaulC]

Think there should be another option. Back him for the time being which is what i would have voted for. I dont think he should be sacked now or after the next two games or even backed for the foreseeable future. 

[OutByEaster?]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

but that is not how the individual players playing there are appraised..

Two are good.

We play with three.

A good squad would have five.

We're weak in midfield because we're short one quality player and two back ups.

Surely you get that?

Complaining about the two that are good enough is massively misunderstanding the problem. 

 

 

[Made In Aston]

10 minutes ago, jjaacckk91 said:

Take the results out of the question.

Watford- absolutely awful performance 

Newcastle- comfortable but nothing particularly great, Newcastle have since been dreadful which adds some perspective.

Brentford-  laboured draw, we had a lot of players out so was seen as a good point. But we again didn't play 'well'

Chelsea- played well, Chelsea far more clinical 3-0 was harsh but they just have better players.

Everton- again looked okay but bailey made the difference with his unreal cameo.

United- just a really solid team performance, was difficult to pick anyone in particular out but we just looked ready for what they had.

Tottenham - we were poor, very disjointed especially the passing

Wolves - up by two and cruising and we absolutely collapsed, totally inept by the end.

Arsenal - THE worst first half we have put out in a long long time, absolutely disgraceful, we we better in the second half but still outplayed.

West ham - not as pathetic as arsenal but still very poor, couldn't pass, all hoof, even the bright sparks of bailey were exceptionally quiet.

Summary- I put the start down to pre season, I thought we got going but somehow we have degraded into so much worse.

The concern for me is the lack of 'good' performances and the abundance of 'dreadful' performances(and this is no exaggeration these have been **** atrocious this season)

I'd say Smith probably has these two games to fix it, so far I think all the results have been pretty accurate representations of the games(bar maybe wolves) and we are 10 from 10 very much relegation battle form, but we have also been uncompetitive for about 4.5 of our 10 games, and it's that which is just unacceptable.

 

So if you look at your analysis then the season hasn't been the total disaster some make out. The Watford result was to do with a poor preseason and the Brentford one due to lack of first team players available. Other results, up to Tottenham, were acceptable so really these last 4 are what is really causing the demand for Smith to go.

I think we need to be a bit more patient and see how November goes before calling for his head. We know he is streaky but don't yet know whether this is just one of those times or if it is something more fundamental. By the end of November we may have a clearer idea. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Made In Aston

[hippo]

30 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If Dean does go in the next week or so, I think Lange should follow soon after.

 

I think he should go anyway. Totally failed . The idea was that should the head coach leave the coaching team would remain and a degree consistently is achieved.

We have allowed the coaching team that delivered our best finish for 10 years to disintegrate.

We also seem to be buying players who don't compliment each other. 

Both these are the exact opposite outcomes that the sporting director was employed to prevent.

 

[Awol]

39 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it was either/or - we tried to sign Ward-Prowse after we'd bought Ings.

For me the big failing in our summer was not getting JWP and not having an alternative lined up when the deal didn't go through - I think ultimately that might cost the manager his job.

 

I have wondered if not getting JWP was down to us refusing to pay Southampton’s price - because we’d just dropped £30m odd on Ings (who I like and rate)? 

Wondered the same about the Smith-Rowe too… No question he’s a £50m player in my book, If we’d opened with a bid of £45m upfront it might have turned their heads. 

FWIW I agree about Lange, we’re hopelessly unbalanced as a squad and that’s on him. Deano still has to cop for the results though. 

 

[hippo]

13 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

The last thing we need is to chuck everything in the bin and start again. This is the nearest thing we have got to stability for years even if the summer transfers have been a mixed bag so far.

But it isn't. We've already binned last season's coaches.

We have a virtually new coaching team anyway.

The new signings appear to be very injury prone and even when fit look unlikely to compliment each other. 

[Tomaszk]

51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it was either/or - we tried to sign Ward-Prowse after we'd bought Ings.

For me the big failing in our summer was not getting JWP and not having an alternative lined up when the deal didn't go through - I think ultimately that might cost the manager his job.

Which is cobblers if that's the case isn't it. Because new fella also won't have much of a midfield to work with.

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Two are good.

We play with three.

A good squad would have five.

We're weak in midfield because we're short one quality player and two back ups.

Surely you get that?

Complaining about the two that are good enough is massively misunderstanding the problem. 

 

 

No, I get that, that is a possibility, to be established.

• Nakamba....Limited and Questionable quality.
• Luiz..............Regular....paying the No6 role
• McGinn........Regular...playing No 6 or no 8
• Sanson........absent through Injury
• Ramsey........Learning his trade, in transition.

Youth

•      Chukwuemeka

Thats what we have, make of it what you will....but it is a widely held fact that our midfield is a problem, no matter you carve up the debate as to why.

I guess we all have our theories.

Edited November 3, 2021 by TRO

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it was either/or - we tried to sign Ward-Prowse after we'd bought Ings.

For me the big failing in our summer was not getting JWP and not having an alternative lined up when the deal didn't go through - I think ultimately that might cost the manager his job.

 

Agree with this! We were desperately searching for a midfielder and JWP was our man. I think his agent convinced him to stay and put a release clause in his contract, so think he will be coming still in Jan or at the end of the season.

Same agent as Grealish remember.

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Think there should be another option. Back him for the time being which is what i would have voted for. I dont think he should be sacked now or after the next two games or even backed for the foreseeable future. 

For me Paul, something don't sit right, by saying you have 1/2 /3 games....if it was so easy to turn around, why have we got like this in the first place.....its not a tap you turn on and off.

They either value him or they don't.

 

[PaulC]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

For me Paul, something don't sit right, by saying you have 1/2 /3 games....if it was so easy to turn around, why have we got like this in the first place.....its not a tap you turn on and off.

They either value him or they don't.

 

me neither 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Because our shortage of quality in midfield is the heart of our issues, and the shortage of quality in midfield is more to do with Lange's failures in the summer than Smith's shortcomings in wringing performances out of what we have.

 

I dont see it, will be one or the other. 

[cbr600rr]

smith will be gone monday , 

you can bet jwp will bet the goal to seal smiths fate