villalad21 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 18 hours ago, messi11 said: where does Sanson play? Left sided bench 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted November 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) From looking at an analysis of SG’s tactics he seems to like to play very compact when not in possession and narrow to force opponents to play down the side channels. I think that should work with the personnel we have, but the midfield will need to be disciplined for it to work well, and the two wingbacks will need to be positionally aware of where they need to be at all times. Edited November 12, 2021 by alreadyexists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, alreadyexists said: From looking at an analysis of SG’s tactics he seems to like to play very compact when not in possession and narrow to force opponents to play down the side channels. I think that should work with the personnel we have, but the midfield will need to be disciplined for it to work well, and the two wingbacks will need to be positionally aware of where they need to be at all times. We have always defended very narrow under Smith too. Quite compact also (So no big adjustments necessary). However with the 4-2-3-1 we'd have the 2 DM's so deep that the 10 would come deep too fill the void and the forwards who spread out across the pitch end up isolated. A narrow front 3, with a 6 and two 8's will alleviate much of that. However the left back position becomes a problem. Because while Targett is good going forward he lacks the pace and energy to effectively be solid defensively at the same time. The best way to negate this other than replacing him is with 2 defensive midfielders. Lol! The only other option is to have one of your 8's more defence oriented (when we have the ball not running beyond the forwards, or into the box so he is ready to drop back as soon as the ball is lost) and have the 6 drop into central defence as soon as we lose the ball so the left cb can go out to left back. But that means your 6 has to be able to play centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 23 minutes ago, Philosopher said: We have always defended very narrow under Smith too. Quite compact also (So no big adjustments necessary). However with the 4-2-3-1 we'd have the 2 DM's so deep that the 10 would come deep too fill the void and the forwards who spread out across the pitch end up isolated. A narrow front 3, with a 6 and two 8's will alleviate much of that. However the left back position becomes a problem. Because while Targett is good going forward he lacks the pace and energy to effectively be solid defensively at the same time. The best way to negate this other than replacing him is with 2 defensive midfielders. Lol! The only other option is to have one of your 8's more defence oriented (when we have the ball not running beyond the forwards, or into the box so he is ready to drop back as soon as the ball is lost) and have the 6 drop into central defence as soon as we lose the ball so the left cb can go out to left back. But that means your 6 has to be able to play centre back. The issue we have is our best 6 is actually better as an 8 IMO (Luiz). Maybe we could play Tuanzebe as the 6 and play McGinn and Luiz as the two 8s. Luiz could be more restrained and give JMc free reign. I agree about Targett, he will have to adapt quickly but I think he lacks raw pace. The narrow front 3 requires full backs to be fully box to box and that needs stamina and pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Cashoski will flourish as Gerrard prefers high full backs. Targett is more balanced in his approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Herman22 said: The issue we have is our best 6 is actually better as an 8 IMO (Luiz). Maybe we could play Tuanzebe as the 6 and play McGinn and Luiz as the two 8s. Luiz could be more restrained and give JMc free reign. I agree about Targett, he will have to adapt quickly but I think he lacks raw pace. The narrow front 3 requires full backs to be fully box to box and that needs stamina and pace. That could work, but the biggest problem we have right now is playing out from the back. Particularly when Luiz is out. So Tuanzebe at DM is likely to make that worse. The other thing is if Gerrard wants tiki-taka then McGinn's short passing an issue. I'm feeling stylistically McGinn isn't suited to a tiki-taka system. So I hope Gerrard can work so coaching magic on him. However I do feel that Chukwuemeka has to be given games and maybe at the cost of McGinn. But all of this will depend on our opponents too. As to play tiki-taka with Man Shity or Plop would be tactical suicide! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 So, my biggest hopes are (amazingly similar to the thread title!!): 1) We actually will now have a proper team shape! 2) We will actually now have some tactics that arent hoof ball!! 3) We may use our personnel properly, and are willing to drop players not performing, who before got by on the "Deano's spacial boys train". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich192 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) After reading about how he plays, I think we’ll line up something like this: - - - - - - - - - - Martinez - - - - - - - - - - - Cash - - Konsa - - Mings - - Targett - - - - - - - - Douglas Luiz - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sanson - - - - - - - McGinn - - - - Buendia - - - - - Ings - - - - - - - Bailey Sanson and McGinn will almost play like wide defensive midfielders when required. That team would have a lot more balance to it than what we’ve seen for most of this season, and you’d have the likes of Traore and Watkins to bring in depending on the opposition. Suddenly, after putting it down it doesn’t look like such a bad team. I’d still like a top class midfielder to come in to the team, to replace either Sanson or McGinn (hopefully McGinn as that would mean Sanson has been a success), but I do believe that team would be more than capable of a comfortable top 12 finish. How Cash and Targett get on with the new formation is anyones guess, but both how showed they’d be able to do it over the last 50 league games or so. Edited November 12, 2021 by Rich192 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 I still think one of the main reasons our defence is and has been under so much pressure and conceded too many and many sloppy goals is because of that midfield area… if you can’t keep a hold of the ball and lose it cheaply then all you’re doing is inviting pressure onto the players behind you… FFS McGinn most of all! Sort him out SG or drop his ass! We’ve also failed in a creative sense so far this season, needs to be rectified. You shouldn’t need to resort to long throws (every bloody time) if you play a proficient passing game and create chances in play… our forwards have been starved of service. Our back 4 and keeper were great last season. It’s the midfield that needs major improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: I still think one of the main reasons our defence is and has been under so much pressure and conceded too many and many sloppy goals is because of that midfield area… if you can’t keep a hold of the ball and lose it cheaply then all you’re doing is inviting pressure onto the players behind you… FFS McGinn most of all! Sort him out SG or drop his ass! We’ve also failed in a creative sense so far this season, needs to be rectified. You shouldn’t need to resort to long throws (every bloody time) if you play a proficient passing game and create chances in play… our forwards have been starved of service. Our back 4 and keeper were great last season. It’s the midfield that needs major improvement. Everyone knows I've been saying this for two years...many disagree but it's our main issue. I think this is another factor which has cost Smith; his inability to drop McGinn. I have a feeling (or hope) that Gerrard sees something in Jacob Ramsey that reminds him of himself and builds him up into The Terminator. Ramsey has it all on a plate and learning from Gerrard and MacAllister is going to really improve him. Still think Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey are our strongest three. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Just now, Zhan_Zhuang said: Everyone knows I've been saying this for two years...many disagree but it's our main issue. I think this is another factor which has cost Smith; his inability to drop McGinn. I have a feeling (or hope) that Gerrard sees something in Jacob Ramsey that reminds him of himself and builds him up into The Terminator. Ramsey has it all on a plate and learning from Gerrard and MacAllister is going to really improve him. Still think Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey are our strongest three. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted November 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Everyone knows I've been saying this for two years...many disagree but it's our main issue. I think this is another factor which has cost Smith; his inability to drop McGinn. I have a feeling (or hope) that Gerrard sees something in Jacob Ramsey that reminds him of himself and builds him up into The Terminator. Ramsey has it all on a plate and learning from Gerrard and MacAllister is going to really improve him. Still think Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey are our strongest three. Gerrard’s instructions to Ramsey next season: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 43 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Everyone knows I've been saying this for two years...many disagree but it's our main issue. I think this is another factor which has cost Smith; his inability to drop McGinn. I have a feeling (or hope) that Gerrard sees something in Jacob Ramsey that reminds him of himself and builds him up into The Terminator. Ramsey has it all on a plate and learning from Gerrard and MacAllister is going to really improve him. Still think Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey are our strongest three. Gerrard is on record professing his admiration for McGinn... hopefully instead of having to drop him he knows where best to play him instead. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Gerrard is on record professing his admiration for McGinn... hopefully instead of having to drop him he knows where best to play him instead. Exactly. Why would anybody want McGinn dropped?? He’s a quality player. He’s just a not deep lying midfield. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 I think a lot of the poor passing resulting in giving the ball away is a result of players not feeling comfortable with the system we have been playing. Hopefully the new coaches will find the right system that works best for the players we have. We may be one or two short, everyone knows we need a CDM, but the general quality isn’t bad. We just need a system that the players can make the most of and get them to level of fitness and desire that means they can play it at I higher intensity for the full 90+ minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I think a lot of the poor passing resulting in giving the ball away is a result of players not feeling comfortable with the system we have been playing They can’t pass because of a system? So many misplaced simple passes isn’t because of system. I grant systems can cause issues with availability of somebody to pass to but we have had far too many just simple passes going astray which is nothing to do with a system. Edited November 14, 2021 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) For certain players, I think we need to stop being so attached and maybe realise that they are not good enough and need to be improved upon…coaching can only take them so far… but it’s up to the manager and coaching team to judge their capabilities. We have to make do for now anyway and hope that they can be improved and maybe a kick up the arse will help... But sticking with below par players, in the long run, isn’t going to help us… I’m tired of us carrying crap players and hoping they come good, many of which have been with us for years now. If we really want to get better and start competing higher up the table, we simply need better players… I keep seeing the word “ambition” tossed around but not much to back that up… Edited November 14, 2021 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: They can’t pass because of a system? So many misplaced simple passes isn’t because of system. I grant systems can cause issues with availability of somebody to pass to but we have had far too many just simple passes going astray which is nothing to do with system. That's to do with low confidence, a lack of understanding in the plan and perhaps poor coaching. I'm one of a few that doesn't think our midfield is the drizzling shits. Get Luiz settled and then Ramsay and one of Mcginn and Sanson and I think we have more than enough, All worked to a degree last year. Players arent fit enough sadly and DS has never corrected that. I think we may see a few double sessions in the weeks to come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 If players aren’t comfortable for what ever the reason their game isn’t the same. There could be more than one reason that has upset the balance but a lot of the game is played in the head. You can’t tell me players in the PL, with transfer values in the tens of millions, collectively suddenly can’t play simple passes that they were making without a problem last season. It’s nothing to do with the ability of a player to make a 30 yard pass, but for some reason they have been miss placing them on a regular basis. If it’s down to basic ability then boy are we in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jas10 said: For certain players, I think we need to stop being so attached and maybe realise that they are not good enough and need to be improved upon…coaching can only take them so far… but it’s up to the manager and coaching team to judge their capabilities. We have to make do for now anyway and hope that they can be improved and maybe a kick up the arse will help... But sticking with below par players, in the long run, isn’t going to help us… I’m tired of us carrying crap players and hoping they come good, many of which have been with us for years now. If we really want to get better and start competing higher up the table, we simply need better players… I keep seeing the word “ambition” tossed around but not much to back that up… Apart from regularly breaking our transfer record you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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