Team shape, tactics and personnel

[MaVilla]

On 01/12/2021 at 14:28, blandy said:

In a couple of the last few games under DS I think that's fair comment. The 5-3-2 thing worked in a couple fo games, but a combo of that formation and injuries and travel fatigue and so on did make it look a mess in some games at the end.

Under SG, we have looked more pro-active and more solid, and the players have looked freshly motivated, as well they might be.

SG has rightly said that we need to get better at being more attractive and more on the front foot over the next months. He's started with making us harder to score against, which was the right thing to do, but the attacking play needs improvement. There are signs that some of his changes will pay off - McGinn being more adventurous, for example. As people have said, if semi Buendia comes good, or Bert gets fit then this should add to the threat we have.

i think under the "Gerrard style", our biggest casualties might be our full backs.

the full backs under Gerrard are one of the keys to how he likes to play from what i have seen, they need to have a strong engine to get up and down, doing both defensive and offensive duties, i think for me personally, our current full backs are like yin and yang.

By Yin and Yang i mean, Targett has good offensive output, good defensive output, but possibly not the engine currently to be the up and down the pitch full back Gerrard likes, but cash has the engine and is good defensively, but his offensive output (crossing etc), is really really poor.

Hopefully they will both up their game, but if they dont i can see one or both being replaced over Jan and the summer windows (by replaced i mean bringing competition in for them where they could lose their places).

Looking at our squad and how Gerrard seems to like to play, i can see LB, RB & DM as our key positions to be upgraded over the next 1-8 months.

I could be wrong ofc!

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

cash has the engine and is good defensively, but his offensive output (crossing etc), is really really poor.

I don't think I agree with that particular bit. His crossing was off yesterday, but offensively I'd say he's excellent.

I think you're right about the current (and probably future) weight on full backs and midfield - at the moment at least it's clear that there's much more intensity on the defensive side of the midfield and on all the team working harder at stopping the opposition early, but beyond that I haven't noticed much difference from how we played before SG came.

He's got a number of the players performing massively better than they had been, Ginny & Marvellous in particular have been fantastic in all the games. I think Cash has been really good, too and Targett has returned to fitness and some form.

Now we've dropped (apart from the end of yesterday's game) the 5 at the back, it seems to me that we're playing like when we played well under Deano - there's not much difference at all, other than the hole created by the departure of Grealish has now been filled, pretty much, by others raising their games and the return to fitness of some players.

It probably took a change of manager to overcome the kind of psychological hurdle presented by all the upheaval in the summer - both in terms of JT and RO'K leaving, Grealish being sold and all the lack of a proper pre-season to get the team and players ready for the season. The "reset" of a new manager and new coaching staff has invigorated people, whereas previously they looked a bit down and confused as to what was happening at the club and to the squad and with the tactics Dean Smith was using to find a way out of it. The simplicity of "I'm here now, do it like this"  has replaced a kind of "we're going to try a few different things to try and work out what's best" from the last manager, who had suddenly lost his sidekicks. So basically we've just gone back to how the squad was playing when it was playing well under Deano, but perhaps with a bit more zip and zest when under the cosh.

It looks like the thing that's being worked on is the interplay and movement and allowing the players to use their skills and abilities in attacking ways in defensive situations - playing their way out of trouble and trying to get the oppo dragged out of position and so on.

I guess that side of things will be what drives any changes to personnel - whether at full back or anywhere else. 

[tomsky_11]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

I haven't noticed much difference from how we played before SG came.

There's quite a lot different, and a lot of the changes stood out within the first 10-15 mins of the Brighton game. I was surprised at how much had changed so quickly. Defensive shape way more compact and set a bit deeper, roles of midfield and full backs seem to have changed quite a bit, especially on defensive side, but also offensively (MOTD2 hgihlighted some of the full back offensive changes last night). The way were are looking to build from the back, the shape we are trying to do that with and the who's got what role in that also quite different as far as I can see.

[a m ole]

We used to defend like this

 

Now we defend like this

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

We used to defend like this

We actually didn't use to defend at all

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We actually didn't use to defend at all

This is clearly a nonsense.

If you look at games last season in particular, where we played the better sides - for example Chelsea at home (as one of the more recent examples, but there are plenty of others) we clearly did have a very solid defence and plan around that.

The likes of Ezri Konsa, Tyrone Mings, even Targett were getting mentioned and praised not just by Villa fans, but by the pundits and call ups to England either happened or were commented as likely.

It went ragged at the Wolves game in the last 10, and Watford away where the left back got torn apart and the team suffered a dip in collective and individual form, but over-stating the case actually spoils the argument.

[villaglint]

I like Cash a lot but his crossing is so so poor, he over hits almost every single cross. He makes Neil Taylor look like Beckham. 

He's a bit like Deano for me, he's got credit in the back and there is a lot to like there but if we want to progress to the top end of the league the eyes are on him. 

[DCJonah]

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We actually didn't use to defend at all

And yet Emi Martinez nearly broke the club record for clean sheets. Amazing. 

[kingysilvers]

I never really buy the coach being too nice type arguments. Whenever a new manager comes into a club you hear about levels and fitness going up but I think that simply because everyone, be it players or staff get comfortable after a couple of years. Everyone has heard that coaches speel umpteen times and knows what will keep that coaching staff happy with their performance levels. I think this is the real reason most coaches last a couple of years in a job and unless Gerrard is the next Ferguson then the cycle will continue.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by kingysilvers

[MWARLEY2]

6 minutes ago, kingysilvers said:

I never really buy the coach being too nice type arguments. Whenever a new manager comes into a club you hear about levels and fitness going up but I think that simply because everyone, be it players or staff get comfortable after a couple of years. Everyone has heard that coaches speel umpteen times and knows what will keep that coaching staff happy with their performance levels. I think this is the real reason most coaches last a couple of years in a job and unless Gerrard is the next Ferguson then the cycle will continue.

 

Thank god we have 2 years to find out or i would be panicking now 

[TomC]

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

I do think tactically we are too narrow, better midfield control but lacking an attacking option as our left backs arent as dynamic

The narrowness is the whole key to the system...clog the middle, contain on the sides.

So far it seems to be very effective at preventing good scoring chances. It does allow the other side to pass the ball around and maintain possession...we've seen Palace, City, and Leicester hog the ball for long stretches, but mostly harmless possession on the periphery. (One of City's goals came on the counter, not after we had the formation set.) SG has said in the last two matches that we've been too passive during stretches, so maybe we'll see a little more aggressiveness in contesting those spells of possession.

Fortunately, we've been winning lots of 50-50 balls, and once we get possession, we've gotten better at keeping it, too.

 

[MWARLEY2]

Is this a style that can be easily found out and negated by the opposition ?  Ala give it to Jack ball. 

Or is it a style that most use when the press and we were doing it the wrong way before under Smith ? 

[Zatman]

Just now, MWARLEY2 said:

Is this a style that can be easily found out and negated by the opposition ?  Ala give it to Jack ball. 

Or is it a style that most use when the press and we were doing it the wrong way before under Smith ? 

I think every style has strengths and weaknesses. Flaws will be eventually found by other managers 

 

[MaVilla]

4 hours ago, a m ole said:

We used to defend like this

 

Now we defend like this

 

the new defensive formation must be down to our new coach:

 

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

And yet Emi Martinez nearly broke the club record for clean sheets. Amazing. 

Staggering comment from Mr Villalad. I’m not into stats and can’t be bothered looking, but our defence last season was a tight as I can remember. 
 

 

[IrishVillain]

Carra and Neville about to do a deep dive analysis on Villa on MNF. 

[Adman]

34 minutes ago, av1 said:

 

The improvement in Nakamba itself is worthy of praise, is there a single fan on here that wouldn’t have snapped the arm off any club offering our money back on the guy? (Whatever we paid £8m?) If he can keep up his current form I’m not sure I’d except double that. 
 

I've always thought we collectively played better with him in the team even if individually he wasn't putting in top performances 

[PieFacE]

I think it will be fascinating to see which areas of the pitch he thinks need upgrading first. I think both full backs might be an area he wants to improve in. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, PieFacE said:

I think it will be fascinating to see which areas of the pitch he thinks need upgrading first. I think both full backs might be an area he wants to improve in. 

Agreed.

I'm wondering if we are now at the stage in our development where, we can start going " big " on fullbacks.

Or getting 1 top player who can cover the whole backline.

I could possibly see Matty becoming a casualty.

Don't think we should do much in January though.

[Aston_Villan4]

4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Agreed.

I'm wondering if we are now at the stage in our development where, we can start going " big " on fullbacks.

Or getting 1 top player who can cover the whole backline.

I could possibly see Matty becoming a casualty.

Don't think we should do much in January though.

Targett or Cash?