CVByrne Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 hours ago, villalad21 said: Really don't think this is just a new manager bounce. We are legit more organized and structured. We are a lot harder to break down. This is coaching. Not a manager bounce. Will get even better after he get a full pre season with the team. Think we can expect great things next season. My views exactly. We play differently down to the tactics and coaching instructions. If we can have a good season (avg points per game under Gerrard good enough to be top 8 in a full season). Then it bodes well for next season. If feel our main issue is our squad is unbalanced, we are loaded in players who best as wide forwards in a 4 3 3 formation. Bailey, Traore, Trezeguet, AEG, JPB. I think Buendia, Sanson, Young, Carney too probably, will all be happy in one of those two 10 roles. We've just too many players for 2 positions now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 hours ago, CVByrne said: I like what I've seen tactically from him so far. It's very much how he and his team see the way to set up and it differs from everyone else in the League. We all know we set up as a 4 3 2 1 (it looks more like a 4 1 2 2 1 though). What's really interesting is how we are in and out of possession. In possession, we seem to have McGinn / Ramsey move into the fullback space with the full back pushed up operating in a wide forward space. So when playing out from the back you have the 2 CBs and then the 3 midfielders in front of them this makes the triangles for passing, so say Mings has the ball he has McGinn to his left in front, then Targett further up on the left and N Nakamba in front to the right (also has Konsa and Martinez as passing options too). The 2 No10s are then essentially in line with the fullbacks so it's a 2 3 4 1 formation when we are building up from the back. The other big difference is out of possession, we don't press high up the field which creates space between the lines, instead the front 3 move to block passing channels into central midfield, forcing play down the wide areas which is when the press begins from McGinn or Ramsey closing down. This is why we haven't had much possession in the two games so far, Brighton and Palace having to reset because they have no advancing play from the areas we are forcing them into. The spacing between the midfielders and front 3 is more compact as the front 3 are not pressing, instead blocking passing options together and the two 10s basically adding numbers to central midfield. This has meant we are defensively more solid as we were conceding so many goals in transition. We were pressing high up the field and our averagely talented group of central midfielder players were exposed once the press was beaten. We will have issues with teams who want to play less football though, as we can't be allowing the likes of Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich etc.. to wind down the clock with possession in their own half. So when a team is focussed on not losing we will struggle right now. I think we're set up well for playing the teams we'll face in next 3 games though. I like these changes though. I like what I've seen so far. We've won two games but a lot of it is down to how we have changed tactically. I think we are working harder too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 hours ago, CVByrne said: I like what I've seen tactically from him so far. It's very much how he and his team see the way to set up and it differs from everyone else in the League. We all know we set up as a 4 3 2 1 (it looks more like a 4 1 2 2 1 though). What's really interesting is how we are in and out of possession. In possession, we seem to have McGinn / Ramsey move into the fullback space with the full back pushed up operating in a wide forward space. So when playing out from the back you have the 2 CBs and then the 3 midfielders in front of them this makes the triangles for passing, so say Mings has the ball he has McGinn to his left in front, then Targett further up on the left and N Nakamba in front to the right (also has Konsa and Martinez as passing options too). The 2 No10s are then essentially in line with the fullbacks so it's a 2 3 4 1 formation when we are building up from the back. The other big difference is out of possession, we don't press high up the field which creates space between the lines, instead the front 3 move to block passing channels into central midfield, forcing play down the wide areas which is when the press begins from McGinn or Ramsey closing down. This is why we haven't had much possession in the two games so far, Brighton and Palace having to reset because they have no advancing play from the areas we are forcing them into. The spacing between the midfielders and front 3 is more compact as the front 3 are not pressing, instead blocking passing options together and the two 10s basically adding numbers to central midfield. This has meant we are defensively more solid as we were conceding so many goals in transition. We were pressing high up the field and our averagely talented group of central midfielder players were exposed once the press was beaten. We will have issues with teams who want to play less football though, as we can't be allowing the likes of Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich etc.. to wind down the clock with possession in their own half. So when a team is focussed on not losing we will struggle right now. I think we're set up well for playing the teams we'll face in next 3 games though. I like these changes though. I like what I've seen so far. We've won two games but a lot of it is down to how we have changed tactically. Good post. I was speaking to a Liverpool fan at work who noted the positional sense of the CMs sounded exactly like how Klopp likes to play- e.g they take up full back positions when TAA and Robertson go forward. Seems like Klopp may have been the biggest influence tactically on gerrard compared to his other managers he played for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 Very interested to see how we set up for City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 8 hours ago, CVByrne said: The other big difference is out of possession, we don't press high up the field which creates space between the lines, instead the front 3 move to block passing channels into central midfield, I liked your post in general but this is the key thing I have noticed which apparently ties with how Rangers played. No-one has been passing or driving through our central positions as they come into our half - has all been about pushing them wide. Interesting to see how it continues to develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 10 hours ago, CVByrne said: My views exactly. We play differently down to the tactics and coaching instructions. If we can have a good season (avg points per game under Gerrard good enough to be top 8 in a full season). Then it bodes well for next season. If feel our main issue is our squad is unbalanced, we are loaded in players who best as wide forwards in a 4 3 3 formation. Bailey, Traore, Trezeguet, AEG, JPB. I think Buendia, Sanson, Young, Carney too probably, will all be happy in one of those two 10 roles. We've just too many players for 2 positions now. I disagree - I think it's mainly a new manger bounce although with some tweaks along the way. We weren't suddenly a squad that was staring relegation in the face due to lack of quality, but one that followed the wrong formation (changed by Smith v Southampton), had some poor luck, some poor performances, and had then lost 5 on the bounce. The players are good players and reacted to that with the new face and new voice around them. Yes, as I said, things have had a tweak but the players would have produced better performances under SMith eventually. It was the eventually that was the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) Tifo released this video about footballers and their peak ages and I thought it would be interesting to see where our players are at in their careers. Players in that 0-4% range are considered well over or under their peak age. Players in that 4-7.7% range are considered coming into or out of their peak age. Players in that 7.5%+ range are considered at their peak ages. Goalkeepers Emi Martinez-At his peak age Jed Steer-At his peak age Centre-Backs Tyrone Mings- At his peak age Ezri Konsa- At his peak age Axel Tuanzebe- At his peak age Kortney Hause- At his peak age Full-Backs Matt Targett- At his peak age Ashley Young- Well over his peak age Matty Cash- Coming into his peak age Central Midfielders Douglas Luiz- Coming into his peak age Marvelous Nakamba- At his peak age John Mcginn- At his peak age Morgan Sanson- At his peak age Carney Chukwuemeka- Well under his peak age Attacking Midfielders Jacob Ramsey- Well under his peak age I know Ramsey isn't typically considered an attacking midfielder but I'm using transfermarkt here and that's what they list him as. Also, I can kind of understand why he's listed as one since his stats usually show him to be playing higher up the field than our other CMs. Wide Attacker Leon Bailey-At his peak age Trezeguet-At his peak age Jadon Philogene-Bidace- Well under his peak age Emilliano Buendia- At his peak age Bertrand Traore- At his peak age Anwar El Ghazi- At his peak age Striker Ollie Watkins- At his peak age Danny Ings- At his peak age Keinan Davis- Coming into his peak age Cameron Archer-Well under his peak age. Edited December 1, 2021 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said: Tifo released this video about footballers and their peak ages and I thought it would be interesting to see where our players are at in their careers. Players in that 0-4% range are considered well over or under their peak age. Players in that 4-7.7% range are considered coming into or out of their peak age. Players in that 7.5%+ range are considered at their peak ages. Goalkeepers Emi Martinez-At his peak age Jed Steer-At his peak age Centre-Backs Tyrone Mings- At his peak age Ezri Konsa- At his peak age Axel Tuanzebe- At his peak age Kortney Hause- At his peak age Full-Backs Matt Targett- At his peak age Ashley Young- Well over his peak age Matty Cash- Coming into his peak age Central Midfielders Douglas Luiz- Coming into his peak age Marvelous Nakamba- At his peak age John Mcginn- At his peak age Morgan Sanson- At his peak age Carney Chukwuemeka- Well under his peak age Attacking Midfielders Jacob Ramsey- Well under his peak age I know Ramsey isn't typically considered an attacking midfielder but I'm using transfermarkt here and that's what they list him as. Also, I can kind of understand why he's listed as one since his stats usually show him to be playing higher up the field than our other CMs. Wide Attacker Leon Bailey-At his peak age Trezeguet-At his peak age Jadon Philogene-Bidace- Well under his peak age Emilliano Buendia- At his peak age Bertrand Traore- At his peak age Anwar El Ghazi- At his peak age Striker Ollie Watkins- At his peak age Danny Ings- At his peak age Keinan Davis- Coming into his peak age Cameron Archer-Well under his peak age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 3 hours ago, peterw said: I disagree - I think it's mainly a new manger bounce although with some tweaks along the way. We weren't suddenly a squad that was staring relegation in the face due to lack of quality, but one that followed the wrong formation (changed by Smith v Southampton), had some poor luck, some poor performances, and had then lost 5 on the bounce. The players are good players and reacted to that with the new face and new voice around them. Yes, as I said, things have had a tweak but the players would have produced better performances under SMith eventually. It was the eventually that was the problem. The shape is totally different, it’s unrecognisable, the game vs Southampton and Arsenal were dire the players had no idea what they were doing, I was a big fan of Smith but I can see that I was blinded by my admiration for the bloke as a Villa fan and a man that had done well by us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 @gwi1890 Its more than a new manager bounce.Under DS I got the impression the team just went out onto the field and played football ( and quite often didnt even turn up ) Under SG the team seems to be following a set plan/tactic and every player seems to know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing. I also dont agree that the players would have produced better performances later under DS.He had 3 years and ove 300 mil and we were in the relegation zone for the second time in 3 seasons.With that amount of money and time I would expect/demand a whole lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted December 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Under DS I got the impression the team just went out onto the field and played football ( and quite often didnt even turn up ) Under SG the team seems to be following a set plan/tactic and every player seems to know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing. In a couple of the last few games under DS I think that's fair comment. The 5-3-2 thing worked in a couple fo games, but a combo of that formation and injuries and travel fatigue and so on did make it look a mess in some games at the end. Under SG, we have looked more pro-active and more solid, and the players have looked freshly motivated, as well they might be. SG has rightly said that we need to get better at being more attractive and more on the front foot over the next months. He's started with making us harder to score against, which was the right thing to do, but the attacking play needs improvement. There are signs that some of his changes will pay off - McGinn being more adventurous, for example. As people have said, if semi Buendia comes good, or Bert gets fit then this should add to the threat we have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: @gwi1890 Its more than a new manager bounce.Under DS I got the impression the team just went out onto the field and played football ( and quite often didnt even turn up ) Under SG the team seems to be following a set plan/tactic and every player seems to know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing. I also dont agree that the players would have produced better performances later under DS.He had 3 years and ove 300 mil and we were in the relegation zone for the second time in 3 seasons.With that amount of money and time I would expect/demand a whole lot better. Was mostly give the ball to Snakelish and see what happens. Under no point could I see a clear system or style of play. I can already start to see that under Gerrard, and it's only the start. Bright times ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, blandy said: if semi Buendia comes good, That might be what's slowing him down. SG will have to do something about that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 10 hours ago, peterw said: I disagree - I think it's mainly a new manger bounce although with some tweaks along the way. We weren't suddenly a squad that was staring relegation in the face due to lack of quality, but one that followed the wrong formation (changed by Smith v Southampton), had some poor luck, some poor performances, and had then lost 5 on the bounce. The players are good players and reacted to that with the new face and new voice around them. Yes, as I said, things have had a tweak but the players would have produced better performances under SMith eventually. It was the eventually that was the problem. but its not any old voice, or any old face. I can think of many other managers coming in and it wouldn't have changed.....Players need to Believe and to them, its important who it comes from. I am not saying great players make great managers, but when players are made of the stuff Gerrard is, It helps, it helps enormously. as an example......I think Lampard was a great player, but not made of the same stuff as Gerrard (IMO) Gerrard is also clever in surrounding himself with the same kind of coaches with a winning mentality....maybe slightly different attributes, but the same mental approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Off the ball, we play very narrow and then shuttle left-right to follow the ball. It looks more like 4 banks of 2 or 3 at times. Makes it really hard to play through us, but means a lot of work pushing out to wide players when the play is switched. I think it really suits the strengths of our squad though, as we have lots of depth in that 8 role, and those are the players doing most of the work. My only concern would be another injury at full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: One of my worries sometimes is about us almost looking TOO narrow at the back, so far, where teams have seemed to have free reign of the whole wing at times. I wonder if this is something which will improve over time, as the lads in those positions get more used to the tactics? Although, he has mentioned at times, he's ok allowing teams possession in certain areas, as long as we protect the goal? I think it's fine if you react quickly. Full backs should always be starting narrower than their winger. But when the ball is switched, you need to be really quick to shuttle over or as you say, it's a lot of space to attack. That's obviously why Gerrard is so focused on the fitness levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I think it's fine if you react quickly. Full backs should always be starting narrower than their winger. But when the ball is switched, you need to be really quick to shuttle over or as you say, it's a lot of space to attack. That's obviously why Gerrard is so focused on the fitness levels. Out of likes ffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 26 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Off the ball, we play very narrow and then shuttle left-right to follow the ball. It looks more like 4 banks of 2 or 3 at times. Makes it really hard to play through us, but means a lot of work pushing out to wide players when the play is switched. I think it really suits the strengths of our squad though, as we have lots of depth in that 8 role, and those are the players doing most of the work. My only concern would be another injury at full back. Agree Mcginn and Luiz are having to get through a hell of a lot of running as are our full backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Agree Mcginn and Luiz are having to get through a hell of a lot of running as are our full backs. McGinn will get a week off soon enough when he next gets booked. Actually looking forward to seeing Sanson start a game. Expect a fair bit of rotation in midfield area over xmas if they all stay fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 I do think tactically we are too narrow, better midfield control but lacking an attacking option as our left backs arent as dynamic Problem is we have wingers costing about 60 million combined so will have to play at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts