Team shape, tactics and personnel

[gwi1890]

The narrowness of this formation is bizarre , Pep Guardiola doesn’t use wingers as such but regardless he plays with width , wether it’s Foden, Grealish, Silva or Mahrez they are out there on the byline when in possession. Stretching the pitch makes them impossible to defend and drags the opposition out of their shape. I’m not bothered about the lack of wingers at the club just play with width! . When was the last time we scored a goal or created a chance at the far post? Oh we can’t because we don’t have anybody running from a wide position to attack the far or near post for that matter.

[PieFacE]

I think McGinn is 5th choice CM for me right now.

Would play a 3 of Kamara, Luiz and Dendoncker. With Ramsey next in line. 

 

[CVByrne]

2 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

The narrowness of this formation is bizarre , Pep Guardiola doesn’t use wingers as such but regardless he plays with width , wether it’s Foden, Grealish, Silva or Mahrez they are out there on the byline when in possession. Stretching the pitch makes them impossible to defend and drags the opposition out of their shape. I’m not bothered about the lack of wingers at the club just play with width! . When was the last time we scored a goal or created a chance at the far post? Oh we can’t because we don’t have anybody running from a wide position to attack the far or near post for that matter.

This, doesn't matter who the player is they need to hug the touchline and provide the width as this stretches the opposition defence and makes space. Having our full backs provide the width is slow as they need to work their way up the pitch and also they are easy to defend against because they can't take on a defender and beat them.

If you are the opposition defenders and you have Coutinho or Bailey facing you up or Digne or Cash. Which ones are you more worried about jinking past you and getting a pass off into box? 

Now with that answer in your head. Think about the players who will play in the half spaces crested by the players holding the width. JJ and McGinn are running into those spaces and both are good at finishing off chances.

This is so utterly simple it boggles the mind why we persist with our current system 

 

 

[CVByrne]

I just pray, Gerrard has seen this system really doesn't work. He's trying to half arse it by saying Bailey you hold a bit of width and Coutinho you come in centrally from your side and Digne will hold the width there. It still leaves our 8s as defenders. 

He needs to change what the 8s otherwise nothing will change. He's got them playing as inverted full backs the way City would play. So your left footed player is on the right and vice versa. He needs McGinn on left and Ramsey on right of the midfield 3 and tell them to get forward into the box. Tell Digne and Cash to hang back or time their overlaps. 

He has to see the pre season has done nothing to change the flaws of the system. He has no other team in the League he can point to who has played narrow 10s and ultra attacking full backs that prove his ideas work. Liverpool have their goal scorers coming on off the wide spaces to allow the full backs to attack and Tent is coming into the half spaces and it TAA not Matty Cash. 

The system doesn't work and needs to be changed by Leicester game as City game a system doesn't even matter you just defend for the game and try hit on counter regardless.

[MrBlack]

Anyone willing to list the 25 players we're likely to name as our registered team?

Is there room for the likes of Sanson and Guilbert, in the event we get a manager that likes to utilise a squad?

[MaVilla]

11 hours ago, PieFacE said:

I think McGinn is 5th choice CM for me right now.

Would play a 3 of Kamara, Luiz and Dendoncker. With Ramsey next in line. 

 

put yourself forward for the manager role mate, it seems you have the brains that Gerrard doesnt.....

[CarryOnVilla]

So, we were right.

mcginnless and playing 433 

[tinker]

Played alot better with 4 midfielders on the pitch, McGinn may not be one of them but either way, 4 midfielders.

[CarryOnVilla]

Just now, tinker said:

Played alot better with 4 midfielders on the pitch, McGinn may not be one of them but either way, 4 midfielders.

Tbf, JJ was playing on the wing 

[messi11]

Is this the way forward?
More Pace and control in the middle 

[OhioVilla]

It was clear, especially when Cou came on, that this team performs at a different level on the pitch when it is in a wider 433 without McGinn. Everyone fits so much better and it feels more seamless than it has looked since the beginning of the year.

 

Also helps when we aren't asking the fullbacks to also be second strikers.

[Farlz]

You know, Dendoncker - Kamara - Luiz in some form could actually be quite good. We'll probably never see it because of the McGinn disaster but it's nice to think about at least. 

[TomC]

The bigger question than formation for me is...are we a possession team or a counter-attacking team?

We looked dangerous on the counter today. Our first three PL goals this year were all on the counter. Going back to last season, most of our goals late in the season were on the counter. Even going back to the Deano era, we did better on the counter than with the ball.

No matter how good we looked on the defensive end today, if SG doesn't get us scoring goals, he's still going to be out. He has tried to turn us into a possession team, but we have showed minimal creativity playing with possession. (It doesn't help when he's often sitting Buendia and/or Coutinho.) Should he just accept that we're better equipped for the counter and play that way?

[ferguson1]

Would this be too negative against the top teams?

                           Kamara

           Dendoncker         Luiz

Bailey                Watkins          Ramsey

 

or would this leave us open again?

 

                  Kamara       Luiz

                           Buendia

    Bailey            Watkins         Ramsey 

[May-Z]

Looked loads better using the counter. 

Watkins and Bailey are made for it. So is Ramsey with his ball carrying ability.

When you then factor in Dougie's accurate long balls we look very threatening. 

It's actually what worked so well for Gerrard at the start of his reign so it is confusing why we've only just come back to look at it.

 

[tinker]

1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Tbf, JJ was playing on the wing 

He's still a midfielder who can put a tackle in and his instinct is to cover back. Play another winger and their instinct is to push forward. 

We looked far more of a team with this formation, if we go back to 3 out and out attacking players we will lose our composure again, we have seen it time and time again, it doesn't work. 

[Monkeypuzzle]

                   Watkins                                                           Watkins

Buendia                    Bailey                             Coutinho  Buendia  Bailey

Kamara  Dendoncker  Luiz                                   Kamara  Dendoncker

Digne  Mings  Carlos  Cash                            Digne Mings  Carlos  Cash

                 Martinez                                                           Martinez

 

One sub can change us from solid defensively but still dangerous to an aggressive threat.

We can even switch a few of those options based on injuries or form with little overall impact on the effect.

Ramsey, Sanson and maybe even McGinn once he has recovered some form can rotate with our attacking midfielders.

Dendoncker, Luiz and even maybe Nakamba can rotate in the defensive positions.

A glimmer of hope maybe? Or a tease in a disappointing season? Who knows?

[Keener window-cleaner]

In the interview after the game today Gerrard said that if we need to wait with the nicer footbal and park some of the technical players to get more points then he will do that.

So expect Steve Bruce/Alex McLeish football for a while now.

[ender4]

I didn’t watch the Man City game today. 
 

Did we not have Gerrards usual tactic of Cash and Digne running towards the oppositions corner flags?  Did they actually play a back 4 line instead?

[A'Villan]

Quote

 

The appointment of Liverpool legend Steven Gerrard in 2018 was a move that brought along a tactical identity that they were lacking before and also an effective recruitment strategy that helped them win the title. By the 2021 campaign, the club had just four players from the 2018-19 squad and the title win shows how effective their recruitment strategy and playing style were. Let’s take a look at the tactics that brought Rangers back to the promised land.

Positional Build-up Play

 The Glasgow side builds up using their full-backs who drop deep to receive the ball. This is complemented by the positioning of the center midfielders. The center midfielders position themselves such that if the wide forwards of the opposition attempt to press the full-back, the center midfielders find enough space to receive the ball. 

Central midfielders’ positioning to pin the opposition wide forwards deep

The fullbacks dropping deep also means that they cannot be pressed by the opposition full-backs as such an action would leave their defensive line vulnerable to the Rangers front three.

If the ball-near wide forward pushes to press the full-back, the rangers pivot finds himself an angle to receive the ball in space  

Rangers mostly use a double pivot in their build-up with their left midfielder Joe Aribo taking a more attacking position on the left side of the pitch with Ryan Kent and the left wide forward shifting inside to operate in the Number 10 position. Thus their shape during build-up resembles a 4-2-3-1 shape. 

Automatism in Movements

 The Rangers attack made up of Alfredo Morelos, Ryan Kent and Joe Aribo is flexible and their movements have an excellent sense of positional responsibility and automatism that they almost never leave important positions or spaces vacant.

Both the pictures above are from the same situation where the Rangers interchange positions and occupy important zones. This spatial occupation and automatism not only makes their progression smooth but also creates automatic counter-movements that the opposition may find hard to defend.

The Intention Behind the Overloads

 One of the things this Steven Gerrard side is good at is overloading areas of the pitch and using it to their advantage. Whether they are defensive overloads or offensive overloads they make sure they use it to their good. When in possession, they overload with the intention of not just providing more options to the ball carrier but also in case they lose possession, to win the ball back with numbers.

The above image shows the numerical superiority that Rangers offers in possession. In the same situation, the overload in possession helps them to press effectively if they do turn over the ball.

When out of possession, their zonal defence shifts across to the ball near side and become so narrow that they choke the ball out of the opposition and in doing so when they recover the ball they have enough numbers to keep the ball or hit the opposition on the counter-attack. 

The defensive overload they create on flanks helps them counter attack

Their rest offence forms a triangle with Alfredo Morelos on top between the opposition center backs and their wide forwards dropping deep and moving slightly inwards. This complements their overloading system as their wide forwards can overload the flanks while screening back passes and also initiate a quick counter-attack

Protecting the Centre

 Out of possession, Rangers deploy a man-oriented pressing system where they man-mark all possible options to the opposition ball carrier. The front three moves in synchronisation in relation to the ball with the aim of preventing the opposition from playing through the center. The wide forwards prioritise defending the ball from reaching opposition pivot or pivots and instead lures the opposition to pass to the flanks where they can overload and win the ball back.

Rangers’ front three prevent the opposition from progressing the ball through the centre.

Rangers’ man-oriented pressing scheme causes issues for opposing teams during their build-up

 

https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/tactical-analysis-steven-gerrards-rangers/

Makes for an interesting read.

Especially for those of us who think the double pivot is beyond him.

Edited September 3, 2022 by A'Villan