Delphinho123 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Just now, Okonokos said: No, we also need another top defensive midfielder. 100%. But that doesn't mean those 3 aren't top 8 quality. Fair enough. So a top defensive midfielder and you think we’ll finish in the top 8 this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: The 6 players who played in midfield last night: Tielemans Maddison Ndidi Rice Soucek Benrahma Not one of our midfielders would start ahead of those. Anyone saying that what we have gets us anywhere near a top 8 finish is off their tits. We need 2 new players in there. Or 1 and we settle for somewhere around 11th. Just depends how patient the board are for success. Didn't our midfield with Hourihane in it totally outperform West Ham's in the match at their place last season? And essentially we lost the game through a combination of conceding bad goals, VAR judging the cuff of Ollie's sleeve to be offside, and missing chances including a penalty. Regarding Leicester's I agree but I think we're a bit off challenging for CL places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: Fair enough. So a top defensive midfielder and you think we’ll finish in the top 8 this season? Not aimed at me but I think this, especially when people realise how good Sanson can be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Just now, Steero113 said: Not aimed at me but I think this, especially when people realise how good Sanson can be. Fair enough. Hope you’re right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CVByrne Posted August 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I don’t agree that Luiz, Traore or McGinn are too 6-8 players. If they were, we wouldn’t have finished 11th last season with Grealish in the team. The reason we finished 11th was we had Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Barkley and Elmo playing too many games and JAck then missing for 1/3rd season. Plus no chance to rest any players with no squad depth and lets not forget the season was packed in from 21st of September to May and a very short pre season. Traore, Luiz and McGinn are quality players who are very much in the top 5-8 squad members category. Edited August 24, 2021 by CVByrne 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Ok. No point in us signing another central midfielder then is there? Especially with the emergence of Ramsey. With Buendia and Bailey on the wings as well, we’ll cruise into the top 8 and potentially Europe. Nakamba needs upgrading, so a new signing that jumps ahead of Luiz/McGinn pushes them down and Nakamba out. Add players that are better than who you have and let the bottom of the group go. That's how we improve. Buendia > Traore > Trezeguet - that's the idea, improve positions incrementally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Fair enough. So a top defensive midfielder and you think we’ll finish in the top 8 this season? If we do sign a midfielder of McKennie or Delaney's quality and Buendia and Bailey live up to expectations (I picked them as I think they will be key players this season) then there's every chance we could get top 8. I'd say this is currently our best squad since being back in the Prem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, omariqy said: Way I see it is we have one of the best back 5’s and forward players outside the top 4/5 teams. Our issue is still quality in depth and the midfield. McGinn on his day can be up there and likewise Luiz - issue is consistency. We are probably a top midfielder away from being on that level. If I was to categorise them Top 6 to 8 players Martinez Cash Konsa Mings Targett Young McGinn Luiz Bailey Buendia Ings Watkins Traore Unknown Sanson Tuanzebe Need improving on Steer Guilbert Hause Hourihane Nakamba El Ghazi Trezeguet Wesley Davis Prospects Ramsey Chuk JPB Largely agree & I do expect McGinn and Luiz to have better seasons. Hopefully Sanson can show his worth too. A quality DM would be of great benefit to us… Although Bailey and Buendia could turn out to be as good as top 4 attackers… maybe among the best in the league… Apparently, Ings was interesting top teams and is one of the deadliest finishers in the league… Watkins is going to get even better and is quite a unique striker with his more rounded game and intense workrate and determination. I think Martinez is worthy of being regarded as a top 4 GK. I just think time is needed for the team to gel and settle, more than anything else, and to forge understandings and relationships on the pitch. Once it “clicks” it’s going to be very entertaining… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Okonokos said: If we do sign a midfielder of McKennie or Delaney's quality and Buendia and Bailey live up to expectations (I picked them as I think they will be key players this season) then there's every chance we could get top 8. I'd say this is currently our best squad since being back in the Prem. I will also add to this that I was disappointed with Luiz last season but he definitely has the quality to be a top 8 player. He just needs a bit more consistency but the quality is there. Traore is a maverick/wildcard player. Can be poor some weeks and great other weeks but the thing about him is he has the quality to provide a bit of magic from absolutely nothing. He's a great weapon to have. McGinn, I just love. Absolutely love the guy. If we play 3 in the middle, which allows him to play further forward, we'll see the best of him. My tip for player of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, CVByrne said: The reason we finished 11th was we had Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Barkley and Elmo playing too many games and JAck then missing for 1/3rd season. Plus no chance to rest any players with no squad depth and lets not forget the season was packed in from 21st of September to May and a very short pre season. Traore, Luiz and McGinn are quality players who are very much in the top 5-8 squad members category. Also the Covid outbreak played a huge part. Without that I'm convinced we would've finished several places higher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Fair enough. So a top defensive midfielder and you think we’ll finish in the top 8 this season? Beeeyatch please!!! we're going to win the League with a top quality DM. Top 8 pfft. This is a tongue in cheek post for those devoid of any humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 IF we can have better luck with injuries than we did last season and players like Bailey and Buendia settle in quickly and the team gels we'll be top 7 or 8 in terms of points per game in the second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Mantis said: Also the Covid outbreak played a huge part. Without that I'm convinced we would've finished several places higher. I think Barkley injury and loss of form, then Grealish injury were probably the two biggest factors. We had basically Traore as only real creative output then. It's hard to know how much Covid impacted us because it was Barkleys lack of form and then Jacks injury all after turn of the year so hard to split one from other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, tomsky_11 said: When you factor in GD, we were closer to 6th than 12th last season in terms of points. Don't understand how some are predicting with such apparent confidence that we won't improve and are more likely to drop places than gain them without drastic changes to midfield. I understand we are probably weakest in central areas both within our first XI and compared with some of the teams around us. (And I'd agree that if we do spend any more money in this window, that's where we should spend it.) But I'd suggest we should be at very least marginally better than last season in this area: McGinn back to full fitness, had issues with this last season Luiz still only 23yo, should expect him to improve Sanson barely featured last season, expect him to be pushing for starting spot Ramsey showing great improvement in first two games, still only 20yo Barkley was inconsistent in both performance and fitness. Seems to have been effectively replace by Ings which is a definite upgrade (potential issue with shape change aside) Chukwuemeka is a promising regular option this season On top of this, our back 5 was already better IMO than most of the teams around us (7th best GA and 3rd most clean sheets last season, wasn't it?) and I'd expect gains here aswell this season both through further improvement in existing players and much better depth than last season. And even with the loss of Grealish, I'd say we should be at very least on par with last season. Bailey and Buendia replacing Grealish and Traore in wide areas looks like a pretty even trade off from a purely statistical perspective, the advantage this season being that we shouldn't be anywhere near as focused on one player and one side of the pitch. I certainly don't see us being weaker in this area than a number of teams that we'd be looking to catch from last season. I don't think anyone 6th-10th last season apart from maybe Spurs that have improved much either, so there's at least 4 teams above us that it's entirely possible we could catch. I don't feel the margins are that big, flip just our two WHU losses to wins for example (one of which we aboslutely should have won) and we could have been 7th. Seems more likely to me than anyone below us catching up. I read some where that 55 points usually would get you 8th place, so we were unlucky. Is the question of "improvement" will we finish higher or with more points, not necessarily the same question - we could finish with fewer points but higher, or with more points and lower? How do we gauge improvement? I would suggest where we finish below Europe is irrelevant as long as we improve our metrics: Goals for; Goals against; % Possession, controlling games; shots for; shots against; clean sheets; xG; xPts etc. If you improve those, you would hope to finish further up the table but that doesnt necessrily follow. There is also perception: do we have momentum for example, after everyone has bedded in? because last season we stuttered after Christmas and we dont want that again. I guess all things being equal progression means where we sit amongst our peers - the second tier (without sounding too presumptuous). Who of those around us will we finish above: Leeds, WHU, Arsenal, Leicester, Spurs, Everton all finished above us and dont intend to roll over, and Brighton and fading star Wolves will likely want to finish above where they did last season and that means above us in 11th. This is not an easy task, but we could conceivably improve but a good season might only see us finish say 9th. Its fine margins, we ll know the games we dropped points in last season, and we arguably have already vs Watford and it wont end there. I think anything above 9th is a very good season and all those metrics will be improved also. Back on topic - this does suggest we cannot be complacent and two more very good players would help this cause enormously, not just in general performance but going the course of a full season, in all competitions with a strong squad. Edited August 24, 2021 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, thunderball said: Leeds, WHU, Arsenal, Leicester, Spurs, Everton all finished above us and dont intend to roll over, and Brighton and fading star Wolves will likely want to finish above where they did last season. Oh they are doing their very very very best to do exactly that at present. Edited August 24, 2021 by Steero113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanVilla Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Just to round up today’s rumours then: Delaney - going to Sevilla so this is a non starter Mckennie - we’re not going to be signing a player who scored more goals last season than our 3 midfields combined to play CDM. So this would be a McGinn/Ramsay/Sanson/Hourihane replacement. Effectively, we are stacked at this position, so this ain’t happening either. Everything is pointing towards our business has already been done, which I’m okay with. Mid-table season again hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SeanVilla said: Just to round up today’s rumours then: Delaney - going to Sevilla so this is a non starter Mckennie - we’re not going to be signing a player who scored more goals last season than our 3 midfields combined to play CDM. So this would be a McGinn/Ramsay/Sanson/Hourihane replacement. Effectively, we are stacked at this position, so this ain’t happening either. Everything is pointing towards our business has already been done, which I’m okay with. Mid-table season again hopefully. McKennie scored 5 goals last season. Edited August 24, 2021 by Steero113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Steero113 said: Oh they are doing their very very very best to do exactly that at present. I know, but they have the talent to turn that around. Last season after a poor start their second half of season form was excellent, in fact one of the best. They have only improved on that squad. If they click, Arsenal could be top 6 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Oh they are doing their very very very best to do exactly that at present. TBH, they'll turn around once Arteta gets sacked. The man is out of his depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, SeanVilla said: Just to round up today’s rumours then: Delaney - going to Sevilla so this is a non starter Mckennie - we’re not going to be signing a player who scored more goals last season than our 3 midfields combined to play CDM. So this would be a McGinn/Ramsay/Sanson/Hourihane replacement. Effectively, we are stacked at this position, so this ain’t happening either. Everything is pointing towards our business has already been done, which I’m okay with. Mid-table season again hopefully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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