The AVFC FFP thread

[TRO]

When i try to imagine the pre match thoughts of our opponents next season.....Jack Grealish would be right up there in the terms of fear.

Despite other players doing a decent job and would still attract decent money....they will not attract the same fear level....as an example, teams won't fear James chester, not picking on him by the way.

If we are to get out of this league we need more players for whatever reason our opponents are fearful of, not just concerned.

Conclusion ...Jack Grealish must stay.

[hippo]

39 minutes ago, GodsBarkeep said:

I wonder how much of that could the club write off if we all pledge to buy 2 balti pies each per game next season

Be offset by Gabby leaving though.

[hippo]

Could everyone donate 1p - when they say or type FFP ? 

[trevor]

Club statement just appeared here

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/05/30/club-statement-dr-tony-xia-on-future-plans

Quote

I know that all the Villa fans experienced a very frustrating and disappointing Play-Off Final last Saturday. After seeing many Villa supporters on Twitter hoping that I can publish a statement as soon as possible, I feel like it would be best for me to write the following words when I am relatively calm.  

 

[mrjc]

6 hours ago, jjaacckk91 said:

Decent write up that, and whilst I understand the maths behind it can anyone explain the financial benefits of using amortized player values over the full contract length, rather than a strict money in Vs money out over that 12 month period. I know players are technically assets, but it just seems to make a situation like ours worse, as they are behaving like liabilities on the books unless sold.

It’s more to do with matching the cost of what you’re buying with the time period from which you ‘benefit’. 

If it was done the other way of cash in / cash out, we would have busted it by a long way last season when we bought Kodjia / MCCormack / Adomah  / Chester / Hogan / Jedinak / Gollini / Elphick / Taylor / Tshibola / De Laet / Bree / Lansbury / Hourihane / Elmohamady.....

Admittedly, it does feel painful when you are suffering from bad decisions for years though. 

[mikeyp102]

7 hours ago, GodsBarkeep said:

I wonder how much of that could the club write off if we all pledge to buy 2 balti pies each per game next season

The last 2 homes I’ve had to have steak as no balti left ... they’d need to up there game for 2 each 

[sidcow]

It's not so much finding someone to pay for our players, it someone who will pay for them AND meet their wage demands. 

This is where we will fall down I believe. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 hours ago, trevor said:

Club statement just appeared here

https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/05/30/club-statement-dr-tony-xia-on-future-plans

 

"When I am relatively calm"

Would insinuate he blew a fuse and unhappy was an understatement.

[Nabby]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

"When I am relatively calm"

Would insinuate he blew a fuse and unhappy was an understatement.

I was just thinking that myself , oh well just have to see what the upcoming days and weeks bring 

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

"When I am relatively calm"

Would insinuate he blew a fuse and unhappy was an understatement.

Well changes seem to be certain and emphatic in his thinking.

Just need to see in what form they come.

[Rob182]

Here’s a few suggestions to help our financial situation:

1) Get some lawyers to look through Richards’ and McCormack’s contracts to see if there are any fortunate spelling errors that allow us to cancel them.

2) We could sign a young player from a small, foreign club, where the deal is that THEY have to pay us to take him. Recon will then give the club in question the money.

3) Recon can invest £15m in Melbourne City for a 0.0000000000000000000000000001% share in the club, on the agreement that they will then by Ross McCormack for £15m.

4) Recon could do a temporary naming of Villa Park. ‘The Recon Villa Park’ or something. I know people will hate this idea, but if it’s onky temporary, it’s better than selling Grealish, surely? The league will only allow us to count what they consider to be market rate, so we just have to put together a good case that it’s a historic ground, and it’s first ever sponsored naming. 

5) Shirt sponsors on the front, back, sleeves, shorts and socks? 

6) Do what Man Utd do and get sponsors for every damned item in the stadium and training ground. The ‘Lotus Health Food Bodymoor Heath Canteen ... Hot Counter’

7) Pay off players like Richards and McCormack for miniscule ‘negotiated’ amounts. With an off-the-record unspoken agreement that Dr Tony will give them a personal parting ‘gift’ afterwards. Unrelated to club activities, of course.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Here’s a few suggestions to help our financial situation:

1) Get some lawyers to look through Richards’ and McCormack’s contracts to see if there are any fortunate spelling errors that allow us to cancel them.

2) We could sign a young player from a small, foreign club, where the deal is that THEY have to pay us to take him. Recon will then give the club in question the money.

3) Recon can invest £15m in Melbourne City for a 0.0000000000000000000000000001% share in the club, on the agreement that they will then by Ross McCormack for £15m.

4) Recon could do a temporary naming of Villa Park. ‘The Recon Villa Park’ or something. I know people will hate this idea, but if it’s onky temporary, it’s better than selling Grealish, surely? The league will only allow us to count what they consider to be market rate, so we just have to put together a good case that it’s a historic ground, and it’s first ever sponsored naming. 

5) Shirt sponsors on the front, back, sleeves, shorts and socks? 

6) Do what Man Utd do and get sponsors for every damned item in the stadium and training ground. The ‘Lotus Health Food Bodymoor Heath Canteen ... Hot Counter’

7) Pay off players like Richards and McCormack for miniscule ‘negotiated’ amounts. With an off-the-record unspoken agreement that Dr Tony will give them a personal parting ‘gift’ afterwards. Unrelated to club activities, of course.

We could have called it Jurassic park, but we can't now.

I get your drift though, some creative thinking required.

[The Fun Factory]

Will people stop blaming Whelan for FFP? We signed for a million. The damage was done on players such as Mcormack, Tishbola, and later on Lansbury and Hogan who either never turned up or unperformed. 

[GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS]

Apologies if this has already been asked/discussed, but can we not just break the rules and pay the fines?  Is there ever a risk of points deductions/automatic relegation?  And if so what level of overspend does that come in at?  Whatever happened to QPR getting sent to the Conference - surely they never made up the massive overspend they made?

I've read articles that say both Leicester and Bournemouth broke the FFP rules when they got promoted and paid fines of somewhere in the region of £10m.  If Dr T is as wealthy as some seem to think, surely that's a drop in the ocean?

[Junxs]

I wrote this in the Grealish thread but it's probably better here :

Its not just making up money by selling players, you can also make money up by saving on wages

For example 26m would be around £500k/w - Terry, Gabby and Hutton will all be on about 120k between them, selling some of the loaned out players will add to this, plus fees and wages for Jed , Whelan, Lansbury etc

It can be done without selling Jack

The other thing to consider is that article which stated we needed to make up 40m admitted it used the books from last year, now I don't know at which point the figures were taken.. But its not impossible they included all the wages of the 5 players we had on loan who have gone back which are wages we are no longer are paying. If you average it at 30k per player that's already another 150k/w less than last year. Journalists always try to over dramatise, I would not be surprised if, as things stand, we are not far off where we need to be but obviously not in a position to bring in new players until some leave. 

[mrjc]

7 hours ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

Apologies if this has already been asked/discussed, but can we not just break the rules and pay the fines?  Is there ever a risk of points deductions/automatic relegation?  And if so what level of overspend does that come in at?  Whatever happened to QPR getting sent to the Conference - surely they never made up the massive overspend they made?

I've read articles that say both Leicester and Bournemouth broke the FFP rules when they got promoted and paid fines of somewhere in the region of £10m.  If Dr T is as wealthy as some seem to think, surely that's a drop in the ocean?

We could do.  I think the problem with that is that a panel is now in place which changes it. I don't know the exact detail, but my understanding is that  that (a) the PL has now agreed that it will support enforcing penalties, which it didn't do previously and (b) the EFL has suggested penalties may now include points deductions.

I suspect any sanction would depend on how we've approached it.  In that, if we've actively managed down our cost base and missed it by a few £m, we'd be much more likely to get off lightly than if we entirely ignored it and blew it completely to get promoted.  I think the latter would be risky - and aside from FFP, just for the financial health of the club as a whole.

[Eastie]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

When i try to imagine the pre match thoughts of our opponents next season.....Jack Grealish would be right up there in the terms of fear.

Despite other players doing a decent job and would still attract decent money....they will not attract the same fear level....as an example, teams won't fear James chester, not picking on him by the way.

If we are to get out of this league we need more players for whatever reason our opponents are fearful of, not just concerned.

Conclusion ...Jack Grealish must stay.

I think we will need the cash sadly , I was hoping maybe o hare would step up but he has a very bad knee ligament injury now and will be out for months .

[mikeyjavfc]

I would suggest that we just showing attempts to comply i.e. bring the wage bill down, sell a few unneeded types, and then hope for the best even if we haven't complied with the limits. As long as we have shown willing and have not been recklessly spending till the last I imagine we are looking at a fine at worst. The EFL will avoid docking points or demotion etc. except in worst offenders due to the inevitable legal challenge it will bring.

Edited May 31, 2018 by mikeyjavfc

[Eastie]

21 minutes ago, mikeyjavfc said:

I would suggest that we just showing attempts to comply i.e. bring the wage bill down, sell a few unneeded types, and then hope for the best even if we haven't complied with the limits. As long as we have shown willing and have not been recklessly spending till the last I imagine we are looking at a fine at worst. The EFL will avoid docking points or demotion etc. except in worst offenders due to the inevitable legal challenge it will bring.

Don’t think it would bring legal challenges - the rules and punishments are clear - break them and risk demotion or points deduction is not an option and rightly so . 

Teams in this country and abroad have been demoted in the past for financial irregularities and we will not take the risk 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Eastie

[Hoof hearted]

5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Don’t think it would bring legal challenges - the rules and punishments are clear - break them and risk demotion or points deduction is not an option and rightly so . 

They can argue it's setting a legal precedence, if they dock us (or anyone else for that matter) points or demote a team you can bet your left knacker it's going to the high court.