Jareth Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'm all for setting sights higher, but you doing that doesn't make our players better or our injuries go away. If we go down it will be a failure. There's nothing about this squad that entitles us to survive though No entitlement agreed. But stay up and it's heroic. Go down and it's disaster and blame game. Same as it's always been. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted July 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2020 In premier league history, a playoff winner has managed to finish higher than 17th on just 10 occasions. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jackbauer24 Posted July 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2020 I have absolutely no doubt that at some point on Sunday the As It Stands table will see us back in the relegation zone, not saying it will end like that but I'm sure it will happen. We'll let in an early goal or Watford will take shock lead. I just can't see it being an easy afternoon, I think one goal will swing it in the last ten minutes of one of the games. It's going to be horrible. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I feel worse about the West Ham game than I did about Arsenal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: All this waiting gives me play off final vibes. The Fulham version or the Derby version? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: It's all about context. Yeah on paper survival first year back is job done, but for me it's the almost 70 goals conceded stat which is unacceptable. Players losing heads when the going gets rough. Mentality has to change. For most parts it's been nowhere near good enough. Have you not seen a positive change in mentality post lockdown? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted July 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, DCJonah said: In premier league history, a playoff winner has managed to finish higher than 17th on just 10 occasions. That seems like quite a lot of occasions to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 37 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: That seems like quite a lot of occasions to me. Really? It means the majority of the time it doesn't happen. Also when you see that in prem history, the team promoted through the playoffs have been relegated the following year 17 times, it certainly to me, shows these ideas that finishing 17th isn't a success look pretty silly to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 7 hours ago, dubbs said: I feel worse about the West Ham game than I did about Arsenal. Arsenal was the west brom second leg for me. I felt horrendous. I could only see it going very wrong. We did the business. I feel slightly better about West Ham. It's Derby all over again because this is it now, finishing the job, and it's not the impossible challenge It was said earlier, lost the post now, but under Smith you can't argue with our "pressure" performances. We seem to handle it well. The fans don't, obviously, I feel like I'm going to collapse every time we concede a corner. I think a point will be enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Really? It means the majority of the time it doesn't happen. Also when you see that in prem history, the team promoted through the playoffs have been relegated the following year 17 times, it certainly to me, shows these ideas that finishing 17th isn't a success look pretty silly to me. I have a slightly different view on this, rather than comparing our league position with past seasons, some of which happened almost 3 decades ago, I think it makes more sense to compare it with the teams around you the current season. What in trying to say is, the relevance of how other teams placed themselves through the years is lower ths. The relevance of, say, how many points it takes to achieve a specific position. Potentially, survival this season could be achieved with 34 points. This possibly indicates a lower level of the opposition you are competing against to stay up compared to previous years, where you might have gone down with more points. Much like West Brom has achieved promotion with 84points. We finished the 17-18 season with 84 points and finished 4th, failing to win the playoff final. Did tlwest Brom have a better season than we did 2 years ago? In terms of results, certainly. But that very much depends on what teams around you are also doing. I sort of winged this comment, hope it doesn't come off as pedantic and disorganised, sorry in advance if that's the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2020 8 hours ago, DCJonah said: In premier league history, a playoff winner has managed to finish higher than 17th on just 10 occasions. Roughly Just below 30% 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2020 For anyone interested SwissRamble has posted an interesting thread on twitter regarding monetary value of each league placing in the Premier League. Reassuring that hopefully Everton and Arsenal will be encouraged to win and gain League placings going into the final day. Thread here - 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 As much as i like forest i am glad soenthjng like that haplened because it shows anything can happen of you get complacent and take your foot off the gas. We are by no means safe. It takes is a pen or a red card then it all changes. We have to also remember we cant afford a tonking. If we lose 4-0 for example and watford lose 1-0 we are down just because of ourselves. It really is a unique position we are in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 8 hours ago, DCJonah said: In premier league history, a playoff winner has managed to finish higher than 17th on just 10 occasions. And how many of those spent 150 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: And how many of those spent 150 million? How many needed to rebuild their new squad? I didn't think any fans were still using the money spent argument. Guess I shouldn't be too surprised. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 8 hours ago, DCJonah said: In premier league history, a playoff winner has managed to finish higher than 17th on just 10 occasions. So it can be done then - poor showing by us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 59 minutes ago, DCJonah said: How many needed to rebuild their new squad? I didn't think any fans were still using the money spent argument. Guess I shouldn't be too surprised. We didn't need to either. It was a choice the board and Smith made. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 24, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2020 my mind keeps going back and forth between these: We're staying up Arsenal don't want to go into an FA cup final on the back of 2 defeats, and they hate watford Everton have 100% home record under Carlo that he'll want to preserve We can beat west ham if we even play 80% as well as we did vs everton and arsenal. They're the only side a relegation side are playing with literally nothing to play for We're going down This watford side beat liverpool, with arsenal having 1 eye on FA cup final will avoid challenges, might rotate the team etc AFCB have nothing to lose and all to gain. they will throw everything and the kitchen sink at an everton side that are on the beach We played better when the pressure was well and truly on, when we looked doomed. Now that we're in the 'driving seat' will we have the same intensity? Plus, you know, it's villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 What I will say about the Nottingham Forest comparison is that we can't afford to get complacent because we are on level points. Forest were 3 points ahead with a +7 GD. You can see why they got complacent. We just need to win and that should be enough. If Watford win by 3 clear goals then fair play to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, WooJung said: I have a slightly different view on this, rather than comparing our league position with past seasons, some of which happened almost 3 decades ago, I think it makes more sense to compare it with the teams around you the current season. What in trying to say is, the relevance of how other teams placed themselves through the years is lower ths. The relevance of, say, how many points it takes to achieve a specific position. Potentially, survival this season could be achieved with 34 points. This possibly indicates a lower level of the opposition you are competing against to stay up compared to previous years, where you might have gone down with more points. Much like West Brom has achieved promotion with 84points. We finished the 17-18 season with 84 points and finished 4th, failing to win the playoff final. Did tlwest Brom have a better season than we did 2 years ago? In terms of results, certainly. But that very much depends on what teams around you are also doing. I sort of winged this comment, hope it doesn't come off as pedantic and disorganised, sorry in advance if that's the case! Apology accepted . In all seriousness I get your point. However if the points needed to stay up were around 30 or 50 there would still be a tight relegation battle Same story with promotion or playoff places. It has a lot to do with score board pressure at crucial times. In theory we are in someways under more pressure than the other two on Sunday because we have it all to lose. Bournemouth can possibly play with less expectation and so less pressure. How each team handles it is crucial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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