Genie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: I’ve had the text from NHS saying I can get my booster . That means the efficiency of the first two jabs has dropped and I need the booster. So how long does this go on for ? Keep getting vaccinated every 6 months or whatever. Not sure I’m keen on that tbf . I don’t think anyone knows, probably annually around autumn/winter for the next few years is my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I’ve had the text from NHS saying I can get my booster . That means the efficiency of the first two jabs has dropped and I need the booster. So how long does this go on for ? Keep getting vaccinated every 6 months or whatever. Not sure I’m keen on that tbf . It's only twice a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Do you really think that all this would be over with if every single person was jabbed? Of course it wouldn't be. The virus would still be there, the virus would still be changing/mutating, more boosters would be needed - then it you didn't have your 4th booster you'd be 'part of the problem' and round and round we go. We know as a fact that the virus (any virus) can mutate on transmission. We know for a fact that the vaccine reduces transmission. We know for a fact that the vaccine protects people against death and serious illness and we know that recovery from infection (and removal of the virus from the body) stop infection (shortly after) - i.e. if you're ill with it, you're infectious. So we know for certain that the more people are vaccinated, the closer this whole pandemic is to coming to an end. The wider it circulates, the more transmissions and the longer they linger in people, the greater the chance of mutations and of a worse mutation. Unvaccinated people (through choice or necessity) are the major block statistically to this thing being over for everyone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, blandy said: So we know for certain that the more people are vaccinated, the closer this whole pandemic is to coming to an end. The wider it circulates, the more transmissions and the longer they linger in people, the greater the chance of mutations and of a worse mutation. Unfortunately we don't know that, (and it might be exactly the opposite) Quote Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198 Edited November 19, 2021 by Mic09 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Unfortunately we don't know that, (and it might be exactly the opposite) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198 We do know that for the covid vaccine. The article supports that point (though it makes a different, controversial one that imperfect vaccines could contribute to the spread and subsequent development of mutations and recommends that the whole population needs to be vaccinated/protected to eliminate this risk). It further supports the importance (to individuals) of getting vaccinated to protect themselves against transmission. The mathematical modelling they did (they claim) suggests "imperfect vaccines" could (though it's not been seen in humans, ever) put the unvaccinated at greater risk. Quote when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist. This theory proved highly controversial when it was first proposed over a decade ago, but here we report experiments with Marek’s disease virus in poultry that show that modern commercial leaky vaccines can have precisely this effect: they allow the onward transmission of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Thus, the use of leaky vaccines can facilitate the evolution of pathogen strains that put unvaccinated hosts at greater risk of severe disease. Get **** vaccinated! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 hour ago, blandy said: Get **** vaccinated! Amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 14 hours ago, blandy said: We do know that for the covid vaccine. The article supports that point (though it makes a different, controversial one that imperfect vaccines could contribute to the spread and subsequent development of mutations and recommends that the whole population needs to be vaccinated/protected to eliminate this risk). It further supports the importance (to individuals) of getting vaccinated to protect themselves against transmission. The mathematical modelling they did (they claim) suggests "imperfect vaccines" could (though it's not been seen in humans, ever) put the unvaccinated at greater risk. Get **** vaccinated! I agree with your point, but I think you went too far when you said Quote So we know for certain that the more people are vaccinated, the closer this whole pandemic is to coming to an end. The wider it circulates, the more transmissions and the longer they linger in people, the greater the chance of mutations and of a worse mutation. It's not that certain, but common sense suggests that we should of course get vaccinated. It's a bit of a is-ought fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Lots of riots in parts of Europe. People do not want to be locked down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 20, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Xela said: Lots of riots in parts of Europe. People do not want to be locked down again. Then the stupid **** idiots should get jabbed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, Xela said: Lots of riots in parts of Europe. People do not want to be locked down again. I bet they want the hospital to have space for them if they get sick though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Think I’ve mentioned before about the bloke in the local newsagents. He’s a big anti vaccine person. I went in this afternoon and he’s there preaching against the vaccines to some other bloke. The bloke who he was talking to was basically saying look I’m 52, so whatever they offer us I’ll take. I made a joke and said haven’t you been vaccinated yet. He then went off on one telling me that’s there’s hundreds of footballers all over Europe dropping dead with heart attacks because of this vaccine they have had. First I’ve heard tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Entirely predictable scenes Quote Tens of thousands of people have been marching in the Belgian capital, Brussels, to protest against anti-Covid measures. Some protesters threw fireworks at police officers, who intervened with tear gas and water cannon. Demonstrators are mainly opposed to the use of Covid passes, which stops the unvaccinated from entering venues such as restaurants or bars. This comes after fresh protests in the Netherlands against new lockdown rules. On Saturday, people hurled fireworks at police and set fire to bicycles in The Hague, one night after protests in Rotterdam turned violent and police fired gunshots. Thousands of demonstrators also took to the streets in Austria, Croatia and Italy as anger mounted over new curbs. Link I have to say, 2 years in and no plan to protect from a likely winter surge is not ok. I can understand why there is such strong anger at new lockdown measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Think I’ve mentioned before about the bloke in the local newsagents. He’s a big anti vaccine person. I went in this afternoon and he’s there preaching against the vaccines to some other bloke. The bloke who he was talking to was basically saying look I’m 52, so whatever they offer us I’ll take. I made a joke and said haven’t you been vaccinated yet. He then went off on one telling me that’s there’s hundreds of footballers all over Europe dropping dead with heart attacks because of this vaccine they have had. First I’ve heard tbf. I feel like that might have made the news if it were even remotely true! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Genie said: Entirely predictable scenes Link I have to say, 2 years in and no plan to protect from a likely winter surge is not ok. I can understand why there is such strong anger at new lockdown measures. I suspect that if there was a better plan there would be mass protests against it anyway. I'm at the point where as long as I get a jab in my arm whenever it's necessary I'm not that bothered about anyone who doesn't want one and/or wants to protest. Darwin will catch up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Went to a gig tonight and stood shoulder to shoulder in a room with 250 people for 3 hours, then put my mask on before I got the bus home. It's all a bit backwards isn't it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2021 I've got a stinking cold from somewhere. I keep thing there but for the grace of god. (not that a fictitious figure has anything to do with it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: I've got a stinking cold from somewhere. I keep thing there but for the grace of god. (not that a fictitious figure has anything to do with it) I had a cold last week. I kept thinking, I've got a cold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 20/11/2021 at 21:14, Genie said: I bet they want the hospital to have space for them if they get sick though. I think this is where we are in Holland. The ICU's are getting full and the usual route is to send patients to Germany. I don't think they can rely on that now. There is no NHS in Holland so you have medical insurance. Just make it so the non vaccinated are not insured for Covid treatments in Hospital from 1st February and also make it that vaccinated get ICU's before non vaccinated as the chance of survival in 1 set of ill patients is a better use of limited equipment. Don't make it compulsory either as that will wind them up (See Holland and riots). This is more subtle. Don't forget they are unvaccinated and are confident they wont need the hospitals anyway so win / win. Losing theirs lives is not enough so another angle is needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 3G in my office from wednesday, you're only allowed in the building if you're vaccinated, recovered or been tested in the last 48 hours (which you have to pay for) the option to work from home is there if you have none of those but the ostracisation is going through the gears saw the dutch riots on the news last night, we havent gone to the no medical insurance extent yet but we're on that path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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