Generic Virus Thread

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

You need the correct vaccinations if you want to visit certain countries

Not remotely the same.

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

You have the choice not to be vaccinated but you also in making that choice are making a whole bunch of other decisions that you know will be the effect of that decision

You're entirely missing the point.

We were told that you will need to be 'fully vaccinated' to not have any restrictions. Fully vaccinated meant 2 jabs (or one J and J). Regardless of your age, health etc.

Now fully vaccinated will mean two jabs + booster. When does it end? Never? The threat of having your life restricted if you don't get a booster every year? You're ok with that? 

As I said, they're risking creating a large group of people who will say '**** this, I've had enough'.

Edited November 18, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

If you’re old and/or infirm.

The vast majority of the population have never considered needing a regular flu jab.

I think you'll find approx half the population are eligible for a free one every year. 50 plus + clinically vulnerable + secondary school children 

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

When does it end? Never?

Correct. People really are going to have to get used to this being here forever, we'll have to learn to live with it

[mjmooney]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The threat of having your life restricted if you don't get a booster every year? You're ok with that? 

Yep. No problem. 

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Correct. People really are going to have to get used to this being here forever, we'll have to learn to live with it

I got vaccinated, not because I'm scared of getting Covid but to do my bit for society.

I think you're very naive if you think people will do that year after year with no complaint, especially after being told 'fully vaccinated' meant 2 jabs and you're done.

[JoshVilla]

I don’t know, the idea of trading constant boosters for relative freedom, regardless of your age or general health, makes me uneasy. I always think that if you look at it from a purely numbers point of view, the virus kills 0.02% of people it infects (obviously you can dig deeper into age group and health, as you can with Flu). We should absolutely keep giving boosters to the old vulnerable, but other than that I just see it as a very slippery slope.

Edited November 18, 2021 by JoshVilla
Typo

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, JoshVilla said:

We should absolutely keep giving boosters to the old vulnerable, but other than that I just see it as a very slippery slope.

This is exactly where I sit.

I found this article on the Coronavirus sub-reddit last night. A very very pro vaccine, accept the severity of Covid, and ultimately, sensible, place.

80% of the comments were expressing anger or defiance for yearly boosters being mandatory for everyone to live a normal life. It will turn quickly if that's the road they choose to go down.

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, JoshVilla said:

the virus kills 0.02% of people it infects

It’s about 2% isn’t it?  I’ve just looked at the uk figures and done sums. Cases around 10 million, deaths around 170 thousand, so that’s about 58 cases for each death, or 1.7%

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

It’s about 2% isn’t it?  I’ve just looked at the uk figures and done sums. Cases around 10 million, deaths around 170 thousand, so that’s about 58 cases for each death, or 1.7%

That number makes two assumptions. That every single tested person is every single person who had Covid and that every person who died whilst having Covid, died of it.

[Genie]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/17/world/coronavirus-newsletter-intl-17-11-21/index.html

If they're not careful with the continuous moving of the goalposts, they're going to create a whole load of anti-vaxxers from people who were very pro-vaccine.

Yeah, I’ve seen comments online already about people double jabbed being pressured for a third and getting pushed towards the “it’s a sham, government controlling” brigade.

 

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

That number makes two assumptions. That every single tested person is every single person who had Covid and that every person who died whilst having Covid, died of it.

Yep. Cases are likely higher than the official figures, for sure. Deaths is probably ball park correct. There’s also the vaccine which massively reduces mortality. But the 0.02% Josh quoted is about 100 times lower than the uk covid dashboard figures point towards. It seemed worth pointing that out, using at least some “show your workings”

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Yeah, I’ve seen comments online already about people double jabbed being pressured for a third and getting pushed towards the “it’s a sham, government controlling” brigade.

 

FWIW I'm not saying this is my position either, but I can see this snowballing fast against the vaccine, which could cause more dangerous trends later (like new parents not taking their kids for MMR)

[snowychap]

30 minutes ago, bickster said:

You need a flu jab if you don't want to be off work with the flu and having to live on statutory sick pay

You don't 'need' a 'flu jab for that - you 'need' not to catch 'flu.

People choose to have a 'flu jab to reduce their risks of catching it and being ill from it (whatever the consequences may be) not because there are legally mandated consequences to their liberties from not receiving it.

You're probably right to compare getting an annual 'flu jab and a voluntary covid booster. Both should be voluntary and encouraged for those in an at risk group (with a caveat about worldwide supply being properly fulfilled before easing in to an annual booster in first world countries as standard), neither should be mandatory or have negative incentives such as legally imposed restrictions to force people to take them.

[bannedfromHandV]

40 minutes ago, bickster said:

I think you'll find approx half the population are eligible for a free one every year. 50 plus + clinically vulnerable + secondary school children 

Eligible yes, needed, no.

[Jareth]

Not sure I'm following this logic. Folks go for the two vaccines because they realise the importance of vaccines and see the obvious effect it has had on suppressing the pandemic and allowing life to return to normal. But asked to go for a booster they go full ANTI VAXXXXX!!!!! Yep, there sure aint no vaccine for stooopid. 

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Not sure I'm following this logic. Folks go for the two vaccines because they realise the importance of vaccines and see the obvious effect it has had on suppressing the pandemic and allowing life to return to normal. But asked to go for a booster they go full ANTI VAXXXXX!!!!! Yep, there sure aint no vaccine for stooopid. 

It isn't hard. The difference here is recommended vs mandatory. @snowychap put it excellently below.

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

You don't 'need' a 'flu jab for that - you 'need' not to catch 'flu.

People choose to have a 'flu jab to reduce their risks of catching it and being ill from it (whatever the consequences may be) not because there are legally mandated consequences to their liberties from not receiving it.

You're probably right to compare getting an annual 'flu jab and a voluntary covid booster. Both should be voluntary and encouraged for those in an at risk group (with a caveat about worldwide supply being properly fulfilled before easing in to an annual booster in first world countries as standard), neither should be mandatory or have negative incentives such as legally imposed restrictions to force people to take them.

[JoshVilla]

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yep. Cases are likely higher than the official figures, for sure. Deaths is probably ball park correct. There’s also the vaccine which massively reduces mortality. But the 0.02% Josh quoted is about 100 times lower than the uk covid dashboard figures point towards. It seemed worth pointing that out, using at least some “show your workings”

The number I quoted was the worldwide figures (255,848,790 cases and 5,141,709 deaths approx)

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

It isn't hard. The difference here is recommended vs mandatory. @snowychap put it excellently below.

Ok - I can only speak for the morons of the UK here, where the vaccine is not mandatory. But if governments elsewhere have resorted to mandatory vaccines I imagine it's because gentle encouragement hadn't done the trick. If I was in charge of a population like that I'd go full Wuhan on them. 

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, JoshVilla said:

The number I quoted was the worldwide figures (255,848,790 cases and 5,141,709 deaths approx)

At the risk of another typo, that also gives 2%. I death for every 50 cases.

 

[JoshVilla]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

At the risk of another typo, that also gives 2%. I death for every 50 cases.

 

Yes you're right, my bad!