Tom13 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yeah but for those 28 games he wasnt showing it was he. He was barely getting into this poor team and that's with Jack moved forward and McGinn injured for part of it. Luiz has now shown what we originally brought him for, what we expected but we did not see any of that before the lockdown. He wasnt tripe I agree but neither was any of his quality showing, he looked slightly out of his depth. The revelation since lockdown has been a massive turnaround but again it is only 10 games and that wont be enough for Man City. Additionally can you really say that Luiz would get close to Man City's midfield at the moment, they are astonishing and so the other question is would Man City get more for him by buy back and then resell. The answer is most likely No and they can also leave him with us slightly longer and see if he continues growth and then make a decision before his buy back clause expires. I'm amazed you didn't think any of his quality was showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Tom13 said: I'm amazed you didn't think any of his quality was showing. I didnt. We had some very brief glances but nothing you would hang your hat on and I think that most thought the same way given the weekly post game reaction to players and in this case Luiz' performances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted July 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2020 He has been much improved, hope he gets to show off this particular skill more frequently: What a player... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Tom13 said: He wasn't tripe though. If you know football his quality was blindingly obvious. Yes, he really was tripe. Unless as a midfielder, not tackling, not heading, being constantly out of position, constantly giving the ball away with needless fancy flicks or passes, constantly putting the defence under more pressure is considered football quality ? He had zero discipline for his position and was showboating without success and playing for himself rather than the team. Again, im not sure that would be considered 'football quality? Since the restart he is unrecognisable to what was on show pre lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 43 minutes ago, brummybloke said: Yes, he really was tripe. Unless as a midfielder, not tackling, not heading, being constantly out of position, constantly giving the ball away with needless fancy flicks or passes, constantly putting the defence under more pressure is considered football quality ? He had zero discipline for his position and was showboating without success and playing for himself rather than the team. Again, im not sure that would be considered 'football quality? Since the restart he is unrecognisable to what was on show pre lockdown. Good job you're not a scout 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 31, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Tom13 said: He wasn't tripe though. If you know football his quality was blindingly obvious. Yeah, I agree. His quality was obvious. What was missing was he was making unforced errors, sometimes getting caught on the ball, getting by-passed at times. All those things happen a fair bit to players arriving from foreign leagues, or for that matter, lower English leagues. It seems like, from the outside, he has benefitted from some clarity being given to him about exactly what his role needed to be, exactly how to play that role and from his team mates also knowing he'd be there doing that job. The quality he has, in terms of his shooting, passing, ability with the ball will always be there. It just using them to benefit the team, and not to put the team in danger at the wrong time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Tom13 said: He wasn't tripe though. If you know football his quality was blindingly obvious. He looked to have all the stuff but struggled adapting to the pace and physical side of the PL. That comes with time on the pitch. Completely agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Jas10 said: He has been much improved, hope he gets to show off this particular skill more frequently: What a player... It's the little drag forward that does it for me. He did the same thing against Norwich. Pure quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: Good job you're not a scout ? What has that got to do with his poor performances for 3/4 of the season ? Those terrible performances don't suddenly become magical because he has improved ten fold. He was poor, glimpses of skill ? Jota has shown glimpses of skill, taylor has shown glimses of skill. Meant nothing when the overall performances were substandard. He needs to keep up the levels his last 9 or 10 games have produced before we need to concern ourselves on man City using this or January to try and buy him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Keyblade said: It's the little drag forward that does it for me. He did the same thing against Norwich. Pure quality. He is class and yet so young, would love it if we could hang onto him for the long term. A special talent like Jack, the more we have the better off we will be... got to make some good signings. Edited July 31, 2020 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, brummybloke said: ? What has that got to do with his poor performances for 3/4 of the season ? Those terrible performances don't suddenly become magical because he has improved ten fold. He was poor, glimpses of skill ? Jota has shown glimpses of skill, taylor has shown glimses of skill. Meant nothing when the overall performances were substandard. He needs to keep up the levels his last 9 or 10 games have produced before we need to concern ourselves on man City using this or January to try and buy him back. Need to consider his age, coming from abroad, having to learn the language and adapt to a new country, culture & environment. He is one of the few we have who possesses a strong enough character & personality to cope and succeed. That’s a big deal for someone so young as well as his talent & potential. As we saw, he just needed time and coaching. He is only going to get better and better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted July 31, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2020 Voted for him as player of the season and goal of the season. For me, he made the step up when we needed it the most in the restart. Didn’t put a foot wrong IMO. I know Grealish will probably get it, but wanted to recognise Doug for what he did And that goal is a stunner, particularly when I saw it from the Holte! Wonderful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted July 31, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, brummybloke said: Yes, he really was tripe. Unless as a midfielder, not tackling, not heading, being constantly out of position, constantly giving the ball away with needless fancy flicks or passes, constantly putting the defence under more pressure is considered football quality ? He had zero discipline for his position and was showboating without success and playing for himself rather than the team. Again, im not sure that would be considered 'football quality? Since the restart he is unrecognisable to what was on show pre lockdown. This is exactly right, why people forget it just because of a few games after a global pandemic is beyond me. My guess is he thought he was going down with us and his reputation was in serious doubt. Time will tell with him but I see a player who does is when it suits him. Hopefully I'm wrong . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, cyrusr said: Voted for him as player of the season and goal of the season. For me, he made the step up when we needed it the most in the restart. Didn’t put a foot wrong IMO. I know Grealish will probably get it, but wanted to recognise Doug for what he did And that goal is a stunner, particularly when I saw it from the Holte! Wonderful Yep, just think how we would have fared otherwise. Would say he was our top performer after the restart. Konsa did well too. Jack wasn’t quite himself but the quality is always there, improved in the last two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 This thread has taken a weird turn where the people who thought he was dross and saw no potential (which is fine, we all miss things and write players off at one time or another) are saying “look, even though he turned out to be good you’re still wrong to have thought you saw signs of potential.” That’s such an odd logical position to take up rather than pausing and thinking “oh I guess even if he was playing poorly he did have obvious potential, I just missed it.” Anyway I’m glad he’s good and depending on your viewpoint either (a) living up to the obvious potential he showed when he was wrapping screamers into the top corner or coming up with unbelievable assists earlier in the season or (b) has turned his game around after such an awful first 3/4 of the season riddled with errors. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 10 hours ago, nick76 said: Yeah but for those 28 games he wasnt showing it was he. He was barely getting into this poor team and that's with Jack moved forward and McGinn injured for part of it. Luiz has now shown what we originally brought him for, what we expected but we did not see any of that before the lockdown. He wasnt tripe I agree but neither was any of his quality showing, he looked slightly out of his depth. The revelation since lockdown has been a massive turnaround but again it is only 10 games and that wont be enough for Man City. Additionally can you really say that Luiz would get close to Man City's midfield at the moment, they are astonishing and so the other question is would Man City get more for him by buy back and then resell. The answer is most likely No and they can also leave him with us slightly longer and see if he continues growth and then make a decision before his buy back clause expires. It's true he had some poor games when starting but he was actually playing well as a sub before that. He pretty much turned the game when he came on as a sub v Watford at VP and that win was huge considering how the season played out. Also hit that beautiful pass for Grealish to score down at Brighton a few days before. It's clicking with him so I really he's going to push on and become one of the most important players for us next season and get neutrals talking about someone other than Grealish in post match analysis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Jas10 said: Need to consider his age, coming from abroad, having to learn the language and adapt to a new country, culture & environment. He is one of the few we have who possesses a strong enough character & personality to cope and succeed. That’s a big deal for someone so young as well as his talent & potential. As we saw, he just needed time and coaching. He is only going to get better and better. He couldn't have got much worse, it was painful watching him previously. I suspect part of that was down to smith letting him have a free role or box to box when he was far too slow and positionally woeful for those type of roles, however people now claiming he has been great all season are having very selective memory. He looks the payer we hopeful for now but he certainly was not what we hoped for before lochdown. Again I suspect being told to stay in front of the defence and stop the nonsense flicks in dangerous areas and keep things simple and fight for the team has given him the confidence to play well. Smith needs to do the same with a few other players, stick to one job and do it well rather than expect players to be great at everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, tinker said: This is exactly right, why people forget it just because of a few games after a global pandemic is beyond me. My guess is he thought he was going down with us and his reputation was in serious doubt. Time will tell with him but I see a player who does is when it suits him. Hopefully I'm wrong . I think he was our most consistent player post lockdown. Probably motm in 7 out of the 10 games. But one of the worst regular starters before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 11 hours ago, VillaChris said: It's true he had some poor games when starting but he was actually playing well as a sub before that. He pretty much turned the game when he came on as a sub v Watford at VP and that win was huge considering how the season played out. Also hit that beautiful pass for Grealish to score down at Brighton a few days before. It's clicking with him so I really he's going to push on and become one of the most important players for us next season and get neutrals talking about someone other than Grealish in post match analysis. I agree, he looks like he will be one of the main players in the future. Looks really like the player we want him to be now and will be a real force next season. If he continues to grow he will be a dominating midfielder that will be admired across the league. I'm still not getting away though from his performances pre-lockdown which as I said had moments like the goal against Bournemouth and I think I remember the Grealish pass you mention but the overall performance over those 28 games was not good enough and he definitely wasnt the 15m player we brought. I have always said that foreign players need to settle, learn the language, country and environment and that takes time and we have a number of them from Luiz to Wes. Looking forward to him next season now he is key to our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 1, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: I agree, he looks like he will be one of the main players in the future. Looks really like the player we want him to be now and will be a real force next season. If he continues to grow he will be a dominating midfielder that will be admired across the league. I'm still not getting away though from his performances pre-lockdown which as I said had moments like the goal against Bournemouth and I think I remember the Grealish pass you mention but the overall performance over those 28 games was not good enough and he definitely wasnt the 15m player we brought. I have always said that foreign players need to settle, learn the language, country and environment and that takes time and we have a number of them from Luiz to Wes. Looking forward to him next season now he is key to our midfield. And to become that key in just 10 games Shows you the abundance of talent that the boy possesses. I would say his potential is limitless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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