Phil Silvers Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 17 hours ago, Follyfoot said: He has the ability to be the greatest player to ever have played for us, enjoy him while you can If he makes into our all time top ten ill more then happy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Why are so many people saying we should move Luiz. Statistically he has been the 2nd best DM since restart with only Fabinho performing better. Yes he hasn't been getting goals in that position but I think it let's him use his curled long balls into the box more effectively which is how we scored against Chelsea. I also think that if we had more possession it would let him move up closer to maybe 30 yards out which would let him either pick out a pass or take one or 2 touches for a shot with space so he isn't closed down instantly. We need 2 things for midfield another physical presence in the middle preferably another engine type player who shows for the ball and can win it back. Should help us defensively and keep us in possession. We also either need a CAM or a LW depending on where we play jack. But under no circumstances am I moving Luiz out of the DLP role. You could play another DM next to him but he needs to remain a DLP it is where his passing, dribbling and tactical awareness are most effective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 08/08/2020 at 09:17, KenjiOgiwara said: Not sure having Luiz as a DLP is the best balance for us. Think getting in a proper anchor and having Luiz as a traditional CM is a far safer bet. I'd have agreed before the restart, but he's really made that position his own since then. He's been magnificent. Seems to have everything required in that position now from positioning to tackling and even a newfound strength on and off the ball. I'd build the midfield around that rather than shuffle him out of there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 10, 2020 He's a player that's benefitted from simplifying things. He's shown more by doing less. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted August 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MotoMkali said: Why are so many people saying we should move Luiz. I think some people can't accept a DM who isn't clumsy and doesn't put in leg breaking tackles. Luiz is very much in the mould of Redondo / Pirlo / Xabi Alonso - his natural position is deep, but he has the technical skill to go looking for the ball and contribute to attacks. He wins the ball usually by anticipating the play, rather than going through the back of someone. English football has tended to prefer the Makelele / Keane / Gattuso type in the holding role, someone who can really fly into a 50-50. I do think we need 4-2-3-1 as an option, with more of a natural destroyer alongside Luiz. But when we're playing 4-1-4-1 / 4-3-3, I would happily have Luiz in the holding role. I don't see any reason to push him further forward. Yes he's got the skill to be useful in attack, but it's not his natural game, and he offers so much in his current role. Why fix it if it ain't broke? 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 6 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think some people can't accept a DM who isn't clumsy and doesn't put in leg breaking tackles. Luiz is very much in the mould of Redondo / Pirlo / Xabi Alonso - his natural position is deep, but he has the technical skill to go looking for the ball and contribute to attacks. He wins the ball usually by anticipating the play, rather than going through the back of someone. English football has tended to prefer the Makelele / Keane / Gattuso type in the holding role, someone who can really fly into a 50-50. I do think we need 4-2-3-1 as an option, with more of a natural destroyer alongside Luiz. But when we're playing 4-1-4-1 / 4-3-3, I would happily have Luiz in the holding role. I don't see any reason to push him further forward. Yes he's got the skill to be useful in attack, but it's not his natural game, and he offers so much in his current role. Why fix it if it ain't broke? To be fair the three of those were also exceptional footballers - Gattuso not so much as the other two, as well as flying in to tackles. Although I don't remember Makalele flying into tackles all that much. Keane in particular was a brilliant footballer, something which gets overlooked because of his tendency towards bursts of rage. I saw a stat at the weekend that he has as many Champions League goals as Zidane. He was much more than a destroyer and I'd give anything for a footballer of his capability to be in this Villa side (without the rage preferably). However, I wouldn't put him in the DM role ahead of Luiz. He'd probably fill one of the other CM positions. But moving Luiz out of CDM now when he's probably just played the best football of his career (I will confess I haven't seen much of Girona), and certainly the best of his time here would be crazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 6 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think some people can't accept a DM who isn't clumsy and doesn't put in leg breaking tackles. Luiz is very much in the mould of Redondo / Pirlo / Xabi Alonso - his natural position is deep, but he has the technical skill to go looking for the ball and contribute to attacks. He wins the ball usually by anticipating the play, rather than going through the back of someone. English football has tended to prefer the Makelele / Keane / Gattuso type in the holding role, someone who can really fly into a 50-50. I do think we need 4-2-3-1 as an option, with more of a natural destroyer alongside Luiz. But when we're playing 4-1-4-1 / 4-3-3, I would happily have Luiz in the holding role. I don't see any reason to push him further forward. Yes he's got the skill to be useful in attack, but it's not his natural game, and he offers so much in his current role. Why fix it if it ain't broke? Pirlo and Xabi Alonso? Nah. They were never able to skip past players and have that drive with the ball when running forward. I have suggested moving him to the box to box role because i've seen parts of his game where he would thrive there. It has been wonderful to watch the way Jack and Luiz play off each other post lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 8 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Why are so many people saying we should move Luiz. Statistically he has been the 2nd best DM since restart with only Fabinho performing better. Yes he hasn't been getting goals in that position but I think it let's him use his curled long balls into the box more effectively which is how we scored against Chelsea. I also think that if we had more possession it would let him move up closer to maybe 30 yards out which would let him either pick out a pass or take one or 2 touches for a shot with space so he isn't closed down instantly. We need 2 things for midfield another physical presence in the middle preferably another engine type player who shows for the ball and can win it back. Should help us defensively and keep us in possession. We also either need a CAM or a LW depending on where we play jack. But under no circumstances am I moving Luiz out of the DLP role. You could play another DM next to him but he needs to remain a DLP it is where his passing, dribbling and tactical awareness are most effective. Because he isn't a pure DM like Matic is. Luiz have got a lot of qualities which isn't utilized often enough when he have to play deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: Pirlo and Xabi Alonso? Nah. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think some people can't accept a DM who isn't clumsy and doesn't put in leg breaking tackles. Luiz is very much in the mould of Redondo / Pirlo / Xabi Alonso - his natural position is deep, but he has the technical skill to go looking for the ball and contribute to attacks. He wins the ball usually by anticipating the play, rather than going through the back of someone. English football has tended to prefer the Makelele / Keane / Gattuso type in the holding role, someone who can really fly into a 50-50. I do think we need 4-2-3-1 as an option, with more of a natural destroyer alongside Luiz. But when we're playing 4-1-4-1 / 4-3-3, I would happily have Luiz in the holding role. I don't see any reason to push him further forward. Yes he's got the skill to be useful in attack, but it's not his natural game, and he offers so much in his current role. Why fix it if it ain't broke? I think you need to give people more credit there. I bet most people can see that. And most people have heard of deep lying playmakers. However before the restart he wasn't exactly pulling up roots. If we're gonna base the post restart matches on whether we need new players, one can argue we don't need to find a better alternative than Trez. But we know we do. Ultimately I guess it comes down to whether you think this Villa side can retain and move the ball around enough, where a player that has his strengths in ball recovery isn't needed. And I think even if Deano wants to keep Luiz as a DM for us, we need to find another more physical player to complement McGinn. Cause our midfield is way too soft. The case of fixing it also is anchored in the sense that we finished the season on 35 points. Saying it ain't broke is very very relative. The amount of times you could see Luiz lose possession, fail to recover and invite a counter this season was substantial. At least from what I saw. It's fair play he needed time to get to grips with the league and he obviously developed heaps and bounds from it, but it's a gamble thinking he won't fall back into his old form. But he's definitely one of our more exiciting players, so I hope you're right. He epitomizes the type of football I always wanted us to play. Either way will be interesting to see what Deano chooses to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said: To be fair the three of those were also exceptional footballers - Gattuso not so much as the other two, as well as flying in to tackles. Although I don't remember Makalele flying into tackles all that much. Keane in particular was a brilliant footballer, something which gets overlooked because of his tendency towards bursts of rage. I saw a stat at the weekend that he has as many Champions League goals as Zidane. He was much more than a destroyer and I'd give anything for a footballer of his capability to be in this Villa side (without the rage preferably). However, I wouldn't put him in the DM role ahead of Luiz. He'd probably fill one of the other CM positions. But moving Luiz out of CDM now when he's probably just played the best football of his career (I will confess I haven't seen much of Girona), and certainly the best of his time here would be crazy. He played DM in front of a back 4 for Girona mostly. This includes the game he starred in against Real Madrid. As such, this just backs up your comments. Edit: that video shows his Girona role ^ Think he's capable of playing most anywhere across the midfield, but feel like the deep lying playmaker is made for him. A robust tackling DM to break up play and lay it off to him if playing 4-2-3-1 ideally, but totally capable of being the sole DM when playing 4-1-4-1. He'll end up being one of those DMs that scores the odd worldy, and gets a lot of key contributions but maybe not so many assists. Edited August 10, 2020 by MrBlack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Well this is going to end our interest in Phillips for sure! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) He can be our playmaker, orchestrating the attacks from deep. Jack can play further upfield or closer to the striker and bag those goals and assists. They just need quality around them so that they can focus on their strengths. They are both, by far, our most technically proficient players and we need to build & enhance the team around them. If they are assisted by better players, it lightens their load and extra responsibilities (e.g. Jack always having to come back for the ball and everyone just passing to him immediately) and we will see the best of their talents and hopefully those of the superior players we are bringing in. Most importantly, better forwards. Edited August 10, 2020 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Nigel said: Well this is going to end our interest in Phillips for sure! Have heard from an ITK we are signing a lad called Nakamba from the Belgian league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, Zatman said: Have heard from an ITK we are signing a lad called Nakamba from the Belgian league That would be Marvelous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 08/08/2020 at 14:17, KenjiOgiwara said: Not sure having Luiz as a DLP is the best balance for us. Think getting in a proper anchor and having Luiz as a traditional CM is a far safer bet. I agree with that. Would still look to have him deep but think having a pure DM alongside him who can tell him when to stay or go forward would be a massive help. Would also mean we could play a 4-3-1-2 as a plan b, midfield trio of new DM-Luiz-McGinn and Jack. Would need us to sign a decent attacking RB though which is I guess the Max Aarons link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 11 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think some people can't accept a DM who isn't clumsy and doesn't put in leg breaking tackles. Luiz is very much in the mould of Redondo / Pirlo / Xabi Alonso - his natural position is deep, but he has the technical skill to go looking for the ball and contribute to attacks. He wins the ball usually by anticipating the play, rather than going through the back of someone. English football has tended to prefer the Makelele / Keane / Gattuso type in the holding role, someone who can really fly into a 50-50. I do think we need 4-2-3-1 as an option, with more of a natural destroyer alongside Luiz. But when we're playing 4-1-4-1 / 4-3-3, I would happily have Luiz in the holding role. I don't see any reason to push him further forward. Yes he's got the skill to be useful in attack, but it's not his natural game, and he offers so much in his current role. Why fix it if it ain't broke? Agreed. Rather than making leg breaking tackles he has an excellent ability of getting between the opponent and the ball or reading where a pass is going. Maybe not as spectacular as the stereotypical enforcer but equally effective 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 No idea what the in joke about the Balague video is (considering the date is July 2019) but though that showed his box to box attributes really well, away to Real Madrid aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted August 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, VillaChris said: No idea what the in joke about the Balague video is (considering the date is July 2019) but though that showed his box to box attributes really well, away to Real Madrid aswell. It was posted here and discussed a lot when we were initially linked with him a year ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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