Wesley Moraes

[LondonLax]

18 hours ago, Pongo's Socks said:

I don't know how anyone can single him out as being so much worse than the rest of that team that barely managed to stay up. We were absolute garbage for much of that season. I remember sitting at the West Ham game (0-0 I think?) being genuinely fearful of our survival chances, we were SO bad. And we barely improved all season. That season he showed flashes of brilliance on occasions, and also stank the place out on others. Much like the rest of the squad. I'm not saying he'd have pulled up trees, I just think 90% of the squad were absolutely cack that year too. 

I think he gets singled out for criticism by some fans because of the expectations they had built up in their minds for him, being our biggest signing after promotion and a “Brazilian striker” etc

We’ll never know what might have been with this transfer long term had his injury not happened but the fact that it is on the first page of this website is more a testament to the lack of actual stuff to talk about at the moment

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

That Engels mistake still haunts me. And probably him. Effectively ended his career here. 

And Borja Baston trying to ridiculously win a header that another player (can't remember who) was about to win anyway, ended up losing it and that led to the Engels error.

[Delphinho123]

15 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

And Borja Baston trying to ridiculously win a header that another player (can't remember who) was about to win anyway, ended up losing it and that led to the Engels error.

It really did. What a cameo!

[valengull]

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

[Zatman]

12 minutes ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

You can read through the thread but he was very divisive when he played but that was 3 years ago. He was an ok finisher and passer but is a player that doesn't play the destroyer centre forward he looks like.

His injury ruined him being a top division player and it was so bad that he probably should have retired but his story is that he has fought all his life that he won't give up. He was out for I think 16 months. Sadly for Levante this is his 3rd loan spell and hasnt been successful in all 3. He has played I think 5 minutes for us since New Years Day 2020 

[valengull]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

You can read through the thread but he was very divisive when he played but that was 3 years ago. He was an ok finisher and passer but is a player that doesn't play the destroyer centre forward he looks like.

His injury ruined him being a top division player and it was so bad that he probably should have retired but his story is that he has fought all his life that he won't give up. He was out for I think 16 months. Sadly for Levante this is his 3rd loan spell and hasnt been successful in all 3. He has played I think 5 minutes for us since New Years Day 2020 

Didn't know about the injury but it makes sense when you see him play. His movement is minimal and he doesn't like to get stuck in, which I guess is indicative of someone who has suffered a serious injury in the past.

[rodders0223]

29 minutes ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

It's the same but people want to rewrite history because of his tragic and horrendous injury.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

47 minutes ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

Welcome and thank you for your post.

It saddens me to hear this. Wesley was on his way to having a decent first season for Villa until a terrible and vicious career-threatening challenge from an opposing player. 

Wesley was on his way to getting double figures in goals in his first Premier League season and even got a call up to the Brasil side.

I hope he can find some form and help Levante, I really do. 

 

[Mark Albrighton]

1 hour ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

Hello and welcome.

If you’re not familiar with the injury, here’s a picture of (at the time) Burnley defender Ben Mee carrying out research to determine the elasticity of a human leg.

Wesley wasn’t a great signing for us, even without the injury I suspect we would have cut our losses in the next year or two. As it is we’ll recoup nothing, such is football. He is probably the worst permanent signing we’ve made since returning to the premier league.

For the sake of balance, the game he got injured in is widely regarded as being his best performance for us, 6 goals in 20 or so appearances isn’t the worst return we’ve ever seen, he was new to league, playing in a side that had to be thrown together, he was away from his family in Brazil, he was just 22 when he signed (I think). None of this was ideal for him.

To summarise, he wasn’t very good for us, he was very unlucky with the injury, I bear him no ill will and would be happy if he could find his goal scoring boots for you guys.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Mark Albrighton

[messi11]

Brazil would of won the World Cup if they took him

[bannedfromHandV]

10 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Brazil would of won the World Cup if they took him

‘Would have’

’Would of’ is nonsensical.

[rodders0223]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

‘Would have’

’Would of’ is nonsensical.

Okay da'

[tomav84]

3 hours ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

no it wasn't the same at villa. he never did this.

being serious though, he had maybe 3 good games for us. and by 'good' i mean a 7/10...however one of those games was the game he got injured. who knows what would've happened, but the various reports at the time were that it was one of the most serious examples of such an injury that the medical team had ever come across. it was a potential career ending injury. by the sounds of his performances since, that may indeed be the case.

[KentVillan]

10 hours ago, valengull said:

Hi all,

Levante season ticket holder here and joined to ask about the mystery that is Wesley Moraes, but saw there's already a thread so didn't want to start another.

Everyone was pretty excited when he joined thinking we were getting a premier league level Brasil international who had maybe lost his way a bit....... but this guy has REALLY lost his way. Big lad who isn't very good in the air, misses easy chances, doesn't seem to like running very much so walks around the pitch and has the first touch of a trampoline. He actually put in a great goal line clearance last night, shame it was one of our players taking the shot and he got in the way.

Played well the first couple of games using his size to bully defenders and got an assist. Since then has just lost interest or confidence. Was it the same at Villa?

I disagree with those like @rodders0223who say he was pure shit the entire time he was here, but in fairness to them he probably never had much of a future at Villa once we stayed up.

I’m more inclined towards @Zatman’s take that his physical size makes people expect a completely different type of player, and then when you realise what type of player he wants to be, he lacks the pace and technical quality to really play that role at the highest level.

He had his success in Belgium playing in a 3-5-2 where he could drop off a more advanced striker and link up the play. If you play him as a lone striker or as the advanced striker, his natural instinct is to drop deep, and I’m not sure how easy it would be to coach this out of him.

He likes the ball to feet and really only uses his physical strength in that context. He‘s *okay* in the air in duels, but he isn’t the type to attack crosses with his head and score bullet headers.

We did see some decent performances from him, though. The ones that stand out are Everton at home, Man Utd away and Burnley away (sadly the game where he got injured). In these games he bullied defenders, covered a lot of ground, linked up intelligently, and slotted a couple of finishes away very calmly.

I would have expected pre-injury Wesley to have caused a lot of problems in second-tier football, despite not being good enough for the Premier League, but sounds like he really is just playing for the pay cheque now after a crippling injury.

Anyway, let us know if he improves at all…!

[KentVillan]

Christ, just found this.

Horrible flashbacks to a few things I thought I’d managed to forget.

His weird running style, his constantly angry body language, and his mistimed headers.

I’m not sure how much of this you can blame on the injury tbh.

I think there is a team somewhere with a style and a manager who suit him, who can get him playing a bit more in line with the Belgium days. He’s obviously good enough to play professional football. But it may be at quite a low level now.

Such a weird player. You do see little flashes in the clip of what he can do receiving the ball under pressure and playing a neat pass, but he doesn’t even seem to be doing that more than 50% of the time. I’d still fancy him to tuck away a chance in the box, but yes very glad he doesn’t play for us anymore.

[KentVillan]

And FWIW, after signing multiple players from Belgium in recent years, I think the lesson we learnt was that you need to be absolutely dominating that league to have a chance of stepping up to the Premier League. Benteke was a 1 in 2 striker in Belgium, and his scoring rate was accelerating just before he joined Villa. And he was dominant in the air.

Wesley’s return of about 1 in 3 goals, combined with his lack of aerial ability, in hindsight made him a pretty bizarre signing. A big man who isn’t good in the air simply isn’t a sensible signing, unless he’s very quick and absolutely banging in the goals. Maybe we were seduced by his young age, and the fact there was chatter around Europe about him as a hot prospect, and someone got suckered by a clever agent or something.

The interesting thing is how many journos compared him with players like Benteke as an aerially dominant player, based purely on assumption. People look at him and assume he will be an absolute beast in the air, but just watch him for 10 mins and you’ll see very quickly that he isn’t.

A real lack of homework on that deal, and it nearly cost Dean Smith his job, as we were looking for a replacement for Tammy Abraham as lone striker in a 4-3-3. (Tammy is a much better player, with good all round attributes to lead the line, as you can see from his subsequent career).

I’m still mystified by it and would love to find out the back story. I really wanted him to succeed and feel he could have been an *okay* player hovering around lower PL / upper Championship level, but he wasn’t at all the right fit for our team, and we had our pants pulled down on the price.

[Laughable Chimp]

41 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

And FWIW, after signing multiple players from Belgium in recent years, I think the lesson we learnt was that you need to be absolutely dominating that league to have a chance of stepping up to the Premier League. Benteke was a 1 in 2 striker in Belgium, and his scoring rate was accelerating just before he joined Villa. And he was dominant in the air.

Wesley’s return of about 1 in 3 goals, combined with his lack of aerial ability, in hindsight made him a pretty bizarre signing. A big man who isn’t good in the air simply isn’t a sensible signing, unless he’s very quick and absolutely banging in the goals. Maybe we were seduced by his young age, and the fact there was chatter around Europe about him as a hot prospect, and someone got suckered by a clever agent or something.

The interesting thing is how many journos compared him with players like Benteke as an aerially dominant player, based purely on assumption. People look at him and assume he will be an absolute beast in the air, but just watch him for 10 mins and you’ll see very quickly that he isn’t.

A real lack of homework on that deal, and it nearly cost Dean Smith his job, as we were looking for a replacement for Tammy Abraham as lone striker in a 4-3-3. (Tammy is a much better player, with good all round attributes to lead the line, as you can see from his subsequent career).

I’m still mystified by it and would love to find out the back story. I really wanted him to succeed and feel he could have been an *okay* player hovering around lower PL / upper Championship level, but he wasn’t at all the right fit for our team, and we had our pants pulled down on the price.

He was 22 at the time, looked like a physical beast, had just won the young belgium player of the year award. Hell, even the fact that he’s Brazillian might’ve helped made him look better. Goal return was still good for the league, just not exceptional and he did supplement it by bagging a decent number of assists too. 

Even without watching him play in the league, its not hard to imagine people coming to the conclusion that this might be a rising football star with incredible potential. He already had links with pl clubs and we probably figured if we didn’t move now and stump up the cash, we were never gonna get him.

 And he probably did look like a rising football star even if you did watch him play. I’m sure he looked a lot better when playing against jupiler league defenders. He wouldn’t be the first player to look like a monster in a lower league but at utter donkeh after taking the step up.

all this is to say is, I don’t think its the worst signing in the world at the time. We did screw up by trying to play him as a target man though. Either our scouts were bad and didn’t do their due diligence, or the club attempted to forcibly mold him into one simply because they felt that would be the best way to take advantage of his pjysical gifts. Similar thing happened with Joelinton back them iirc.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[valengull]

On 09/12/2022 at 18:32, Mark Albrighton said:

Hello and welcome.

If you’re not familiar with the injury, here’s a picture of (at the time) Burnley defender Ben Mee carrying out research to determine the elasticity of a human leg.

Wesley wasn’t a great signing for us, even without the injury I suspect we would have cut our losses in the next year or two. As it is we’ll recoup nothing, such is football. He is probably the worst permanent signing we’ve made since returning to the premier league.

For the sake of balance, the game he got injured in is widely regarded as being his best performance for us, 6 goals in 20 or so appearances isn’t the worst return we’ve ever seen, he was new to league, playing in a side that had to be thrown together, he was away from his family in Brazil, he was just 22 when he signed (I think). None of this was ideal for him.

To summarise, he wasn’t very good for us, he was very unlucky with the injury, I bear him no ill will and would be happy if he could find his goal scoring boots for you guys.

That is absolutely horrific! Would love to see him back and scoring, and on paper he should be in the second division, but it's not looked great so far. Maybe with a run of games we will see more from him.

[valengull]

On 10/12/2022 at 04:26, KentVillan said:

I disagree with those like @rodders0223who say he was pure shit the entire time he was here, but in fairness to them he probably never had much of a future at Villa once we stayed up.

I’m more inclined towards @Zatman’s take that his physical size makes people expect a completely different type of player, and then when you realise what type of player he wants to be, he lacks the pace and technical quality to really play that role at the highest level.

He had his success in Belgium playing in a 3-5-2 where he could drop off a more advanced striker and link up the play. If you play him as a lone striker or as the advanced striker, his natural instinct is to drop deep, and I’m not sure how easy it would be to coach this out of him.

He likes the ball to feet and really only uses his physical strength in that context. He‘s *okay* in the air in duels, but he isn’t the type to attack crosses with his head and score bullet headers.

We did see some decent performances from him, though. The ones that stand out are Everton at home, Man Utd away and Burnley away (sadly the game where he got injured). In these games he bullied defenders, covered a lot of ground, linked up intelligently, and slotted a couple of finishes away very calmly.

I would have expected pre-injury Wesley to have caused a lot of problems in second-tier football, despite not being good enough for the Premier League, but sounds like he really is just playing for the pay cheque now after a crippling injury.

Anyway, let us know if he improves at all…!

He started the season playing off a 37 year old Soldado and he looked decent enough with an assist, but Soldado was scoring a few so by the time the coach realised he can't play two slow strikers with limited mobility up front, it was Wesley who got the chop. That manager has thankfully gone and the new one seems to like what he sees in Wesley but plays a 4-3-3 and he's just not got enough about him to play up front alone. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by valengull

[LondonLax]

On 10/12/2022 at 04:26, KentVillan said:

I disagree with those like @rodders0223who say he was pure shit the entire time he was here, but in fairness to them he probably never had much of a future at Villa once we stayed up.

I’m more inclined towards @Zatman’s take that his physical size makes people expect a completely different type of player, and then when you realise what type of player he wants to be, he lacks the pace and technical quality to really play that role at the highest level.

He had his success in Belgium playing in a 3-5-2 where he could drop off a more advanced striker and link up the play. If you play him as a lone striker or as the advanced striker, his natural instinct is to drop deep, and I’m not sure how easy it would be to coach this out of him.

He likes the ball to feet and really only uses his physical strength in that context. He‘s *okay* in the air in duels, but he isn’t the type to attack crosses with his head and score bullet headers.

We did see some decent performances from him, though. The ones that stand out are Everton at home, Man Utd away and Burnley away (sadly the game where he got injured). In these games he bullied defenders, covered a lot of ground, linked up intelligently, and slotted a couple of finishes away very calmly.

I would have expected pre-injury Wesley to have caused a lot of problems in second-tier football, despite not being good enough for the Premier League, but sounds like he really is just playing for the pay cheque now after a crippling injury.

Anyway, let us know if he improves at all…!

I think I remember reading that he was quite late to professional football and grew up as a futsal player didn’t he? Essentially indoor football with a heavy ball, a focus on close control and quick feet but no heading etc. 

It probably explains why he’s built like a centre forward but tries to play like a number 10.