Popular Post chrisp65 Posted February 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: You can watch a video of troops parading in Berlin in 1939. That is enough. Or you can read (and understand) the entire Main Kampf. I know who has a deeper understanding of the topic. I’m gonna hope that seeing a bit of footage of some nazi’s rounding up some people and holding torch processions and burning books would negate the need to actually deep dive Mein Kampf? I’ll hold my hand up, I haven’t read it. Hopefully I haven’t pre judged an innocent man. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Sure, no disagreement there. I just think that if I am going to critique anyone, I would have a deep look into primary sources. I'd say that if it takes 3000 episodes of listening to understand that someone isn't racist, the man should really work on his appearance and statements. We're not in 1982 where it's okay to bandy around the n-word, be using anti-Semitic tropes and discussing how black someone is and if it makes them qualified to be called Afro-American. Maybe you've been come acclimatised to the language, while the rest of society has generally moved on from it. The "I'm a stupid man so I didn't know better" or "I have friends so it's okay to be anti-Semitic" infront of 200 million listeners is at best naive, at worst an agenda. You do realise the difference between calling an Italian a pasta-eater and a Jew a "Scheming person looking to get rich", right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m gonna hope that seeing a bit of footage of some nazi’s rounding up some people and holding torch processions and burning books would negate the need to actually deep dive Mein Kampf? So,Hitler prefered DVDs then ?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The "I'm a stupid man so I didn't know better" or "I have friends so it's okay to be anti-Semitic" infront of 200 million listeners is at best naive, at worst an agenda. You do realise the difference between calling an Italian a pasta-eater and a Jew a "Scheming person looking to get rich", right? I think you are deliberately (and uncharitably) misrepresenting a conversation between friends who take the piss out of each other constantly. But you would know that if you watch, which you won't, so here we are again going round in circles. Edited February 2, 2022 by Mister_a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m gonna hope that seeing a bit of footage of some nazi’s rounding up some people and holding torch processions and burning books would negate the need to actually deep dive Mein Kampf? I’ll hold my hand up, I haven’t read it. Hopefully I haven’t pre judged an innocent man. Haha, that wasn't my point The point was to not look at basic info and buzz words, but understand the topic to have a solid opinion on it. Hitler was bad, but it's better to understand why. As with any other topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: Haha, that wasn't my point The point was to not look at basic info and buzz words, but understand the topic to have a solid opinion on it. Hitler was bad, but it's better to understand why. As with any other topic This is bordering on ludicrous. I can get an opinion based on evidence. I do not need to see all the evidence, I form an opinion based on enough evidence. No one is going to devour 3 hour long podcasts of a fairly odious man to see if he is in fact odious or if the n word and the Semitic tropes are ok to his mates. It's not about his mates, this isn't WhatsApp banter between the bros, this is out there for the world to see, to take at face value. Where does he stop and think, I just compared a cinema full of people to the planet of the apes. Maybe that should be cut, nah, my bros thought it was ok. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted February 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: Whoopi Goldberg has been suspended from the television programme, The View, for claiming the holocaust was not caused by racism - ignorance or the influence of Critical Race Theory? I don't really see how this could be related to critical race theory, which presumably is not something Goldberg has been taught or studied at any point, and I'm not aware of her being some noted expert in the subject. Ignorance seems the likely explanation, or simply that she mis-spoke. What I think the incident does help highlight though is how crap this particular programme format is, in which people who don't know much about anything are invited to give very strong opinions about topics they don't understand and are not adequately briefed on. The actual topic they were debating is about the book Maus, which is (as I understand it, I haven't read it) a very highly-praised graphic novel which shows the events of the Holocaust but with mice and pigs. A school board in America decided it was an inappropriate book to be assigning to students, and there was a lot of debate about their reasons for this decision, with some people defending the decision saying that the book is really intended for adults, while others criticised the tendency to go for more palatable alternatives instead like The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas, which studies have shown give students some misleading impressions about the Holocaust (such as that ordinary Germans didn't know anything was happening). This is a really interesting debate that has been playing out on my Twitter timeline over the last week or so, but why would anybody honestly expect Whoopi Goldberg to have anything of value to add to it? This is a constant problem with this the View/Loose Women program format, but it is not about gender: there was another example recently when Jordan Peterson was booked to appear on Question Time. Now, leaving aside my views of him as an intellectual, he is clearly a prominent figure, but of course the actual topic being discussed was covid restrictions and Downing Street parties, and unsurprisingly this Canadian who has spent the last period of time in rehab in Russia had nothing of any interest to contribute; again, why would anybody be surprised? So he was just blowing off smoke about stuff he didn't have a clue about. Just dumbing down. It annoys the hell out of me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Haha, that wasn't my point The point was to not look at basic info and buzz words, but understand the topic to have a solid opinion on it. Hitler was bad, but it's better to understand why. As with any other topic I can completely agree that we shouldn’t pile on the social media snippets that can frame someone. I also think anyone can have their mouth run ahead of their brain and should be forgiven rare cock ups (kw). Personally I know nothing of Rogan and have no interest in finding out. I don’t think I’m his target audience. Similarly, I have no interest in Oprah Winfrey. What I do think could be an interesting exercise for someone with too much time on their hands, would be a spreadsheet of who is prepared to condemn Corbyn for sharing platforms with nasty folk, that will then make a stand defending the free speech ideals of Rogan’s output. Or indeed, vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 19 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I can completely agree that we shouldn’t pile on the social media snippets that can frame someone. I also think anyone can have their mouth run ahead of their brain and should be forgiven rare cock ups (kw). Personally I know nothing of Rogan and have no interest in finding out. I don’t think I’m his target audience. Similarly, I have no interest in Oprah Winfrey. Sure - and I don't see you throwing shit on Rogan or Oprah. Which is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 She was listening to Radio 4 the other day. They were interviewing ex-Londoners that had shifted to the sticks over Covid. They were asked if they thought they had done the right thing? Then they were asked what they missed the most? The answer to the second question that kept coming back was the multiculturalism. The traitor Farage, with the assistance of the Heil, the Express and dipshits on the web, got the non urban population to cut their own throats, using the fear of multiculturalism. Strange World innit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 2, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Xann said: She was listening to Radio 4 the other day. They were interviewing ex-Londoners that had shifted to the sticks over Covid. They were asked if they thought they had done the right thing? Then they were asked what they missed the most? The answer to the second question that kept coming back was the multiculturalism. The traitor Farage, with the assistance of the Heil, the Express and dipshits on the web, got the non urban population to cut their own throats, using the fear of multiculturalism. Strange World innit. I wonder if you flipped the people being questioned to a group from a more monocultural urban area who had moved away, what they missed the most, what they'd answer. Maybe they'd answer that they liked their new multi-cultural location, but I bet a fair number would say they missed the uniformity, or quaintness, or familiarity, or however it would be phrased, nature of their old home - I mean I'm kind of asking whether the answer from either group would really tell us much more than there are aspects of wherever people live that they would miss if they moved to a different type of area? That they see advantages, or things they like, in wherever they live, even if those areas are different? You're not wrong about Farage and the Heil and stuff, but I'm not convinced is quite as, er, black and white as it might appear.? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted February 2, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2022 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: I'd say that if it takes 3000 episodes of listening to understand that someone isn't racist, the man should really work on his appearance and statements. We're not in 1982 where it's okay to bandy around the n-word, be using anti-Semitic tropes and discussing how black someone is and if it makes them qualified to be called Afro-American. Maybe you've been come acclimatised to the language, while the rest of society has generally moved on from it. The "I'm a stupid man so I didn't know better" or "I have friends so it's okay to be anti-Semitic" infront of 200 million listeners is at best naive, at worst an agenda. You do realise the difference between calling an Italian a pasta-eater and a Jew a "Scheming person looking to get rich", right? I don't think you would need to actually listen to that many episodes. You could easily make a similar compilation from Curb Your Enthusiasm where he says all sorts of racist and stereotypical stuff about pretty much every minority including his own but you watch the whole thing and can tell Larry David isn't actually racist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I think we've gone backwards since the rise of Farage. We'd not planned on staying in London forever. I'd intended on returning to the West Mids, we're not now. Friends that moved to Somerset nearly a decade ago feel the same. She's half Indian and has felt a rise in hostililty over the past few years, building to a particularly ugly incident just before lockdown. Obviously people do still yearn for the sameness in a location that provided happy times in their formative years, but a lot of Britain has lost its purpose, and things aren't getting better. People want someone or something to blame. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't really see how this could be related to critical race theory, which presumably is not something Goldberg has been taught or studied at any point, and I'm not aware of her being some noted expert in the subject. Ignorance seems the likely explanation, or simply that she mis-spoke. I don't think CRT is that complicated and that most of its prolixity arises from establishing its origins in postmodernism. I believe Goldberg has taken on some of the dogma of CRT, which states that to be guilty of racism, the person has to be in a position of power or privilege; this is how she reached the conclusion that the holocaust had nothing to do with racism, but was just one privileged class persecuting another privileged class. This is why some people think CRT is dangerous because its logic leads people to "mispeak", after absorbing its tenets and following its logic to an unfortunate end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said: I don't think CRT is that complicated and that most of its prolixity arises from establishing its origins in postmodernism. I believe Goldberg has taken on some of the dogma of CRT, which states that to be guilty of racism, the person has to be in a position of power or privilege; this is how she reached the conclusion that the holocaust had nothing to do with racism, but was just one privileged class persecuting another privileged class. This is why some people think CRT is dangerous because its logic leads people to "mispeak", after absorbing its tenets and following its logic to an unfortunate end. I think any way of thinking that wants to put people into groups and assign characteristics / group-wide guilt to those people is deeply flawed. I'll stick with individuality thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted February 2, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2022 41 minutes ago, Xann said: She was listening to Radio 4 the other day. They were interviewing ex-Londoners that had shifted to the sticks over Covid. They were asked if they thought they had done the right thing? Then they were asked what they missed the most? The answer to the second question that kept coming back was the multiculturalism. The traitor Farage, with the assistance of the Heil, the Express and dipshits on the web, got the non urban population to cut their own throats, using the fear of multiculturalism. Strange World innit. Not proper Londoners then, if this was a game of family fortunes the top answer would be pie , mash and liquor. This is all London outcasts i have met ever bang on about 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mister_a said: I think any way of thinking that wants to put people into groups and assign characteristics / group-wide guilt to those people is deeply flawed. I'll stick with individuality thanks. This is absolutely fine on a personal level, if only everyone was like this Other people aren't like that and stick people in groups, hence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: This is absolutely fine on a personal level, if only everyone was like this Other people aren't like that and stick people in groups, hence... Well if people want to be idiots and not relate to people as they meet them on whether they are good people or not, that's up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Not proper Londoners then, if this was a game of family fortunes the top answer would be pie , mash and liquor. This is all London outcasts i have met ever bang on about Londoners in London bang on about pie and mash shops. They're not that common anymore. Deliveroo has probably been a boon to P&M lovers as the vast majority of Londoners aren't within walking distance of one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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