Racism Part two

[villa4europe]

I'm sure I'm guilty of multiple "lazy" tags in the gestede thread, I **** hated him, think lazy was probably one of my Softer criticisms of him

Bent from my experience got a lot of "lazy" abuse from the holte, especially for not jumping for headers he had absolutely no chance of winning or no one to actually flick it on to as under ginger bollocks every other player was in our own half, royally pissed me off 

I think physical strength and things like "beast" are definitley attributed to black players - but then at the same time Benteke was strong as an ox, so was Carew, gabby in his prime and Ashley Young were probably our most athletic players... Its not always misplaced... But then at least 3 games this season I've watched games with commentators that had blatantly never seen Wesley play and they wheeled out the handbook of big black lad stereotypes, I put it part down to racism and part down to them being shit at their job 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

I'm sure I'm guilty of multiple "lazy" tags in the gestede thread, I **** hated him, think lazy was probably one of my Softer criticisms of him

Bent from my experience got a lot of "lazy" abuse from the holte, especially for not jumping for headers he had absolutely no chance of winning or no one to actually flick it on to as under ginger bollocks every other player was in our own half, royally pissed me off 

I think physical strength and things like "beast" are definitley attributed to black players - but then at the same time Benteke was strong as an ox, so was Carew, gabby in his prime and Ashley Young were probably our most athletic players... Its not always misplaced... But then at least 3 games this season I've watched games with commentators that had blatantly never seen Wesley play and they wheeled out the handbook of big black lad stereotypes, I put it part down to racism and part down to them being shit at their job 

Ironically it's a case of the commentators just being lazy and not doing research. If you want an example of a good old boy pundit who seemingly only deals in lazy stereotypes, look no further than Graeme Souness.

[Withnail]

Mark Viduka was always described as lazy.  Actually google Viduka and Lazy and he even describes himself as lazy.  What a goose.  Nice hat trick against Liverpool mind. 

[Graham t]

Personally, I don't  believe you can legislate racism out of existence . It begins and ends with education, mostly at home through the efforts of parents etc.

I have two grown up girls, they don't see 'colour' at all, just character.....

Maybe I didn't do a bad job after all.

'Regards'

VLD.

[LondonLax]

6 minutes ago, Graham t said:

Personally, I don't  believe you can legislate racism out of existence . It begins and ends with education, mostly at home through the efforts of parents etc.

I have two grown up girls, they don't see 'colour' at all, just character.....

Maybe I didn't do a bad job after all.

'Regards'

VLD.

The tricky thing is that it can be unconscious and we can make judgements based on race without even realising it. There are very very few people who claim to be racist and yet there are evidently a lot of people who actually are so I would think the majority of people have some racial biases without realising it. It’s very difficult to get any objectivity around the claim of ‘not being racist’ and presumably that would also apply to like minded people in your own social circle.

[Seat68]

My parents are appalling racists. They have no influence on me. Thank god. 
 

‘sincere thanks’

PWEI

[mjmooney]

In other news, I'm waiting to see the average white van man's response to the proposed three million Hong Kong Chinese being invited to the UK. 

[Seat68]

A new target for them. Irish>Blacks>Asians>Eastern Europeans>Hong Kong Chinese.

[lapal_fan]

I think the thing with lazy tropes on footballers comes under new pronouns to make things more exciting/different to what has been used previously.

Beast for example really only started to be used with any regularity when Akinfenwa come to public attention and he labelled himself "the beast/beastmode".  So on the back of that, a lot of strong players get labelled beast.  Not necessarily black either.  I used to call Shearer an animal because of his use of elbows etc.  So yea it can be a lazy thing to call a strong black player, but in my opinion it's not lazy, it's just a recently invented describing word like "GOAT/shouting "let's go!!!!" when something good happens.  It's modernism.  And in 5 years it'll become old and unused as the new generation of kids won't use it because it'll be saaaaaad. 

I remember when saying anything that was good was "beast mode/beastly" around 2005 when I was finishing uni and I was playing video games.  People apply that word (could be anything, like "sick", "wicked" or even "Cool").  It's new words describing something positive about someone "God mode"/"man like", it's why hyperbole is so present in today's society, everything has to be that much better, stronger, more powerful, taller, quicker than the words that preceded it.  And to be honest, it's the internet which has spread these sayings so widely, so quickly.  We're into globalism now, which is why you don't get school playground to school playground colloquialisms.  In my school playground if something was "dark" it meant good.  On building sites I've heard "bear" mean "lots of". 

So is calling a strong black player "beast" lazy?  Yea, find your own word.  Is it racist?  Nah, not in my book, it's just the latest fad word.  And when you get middle aged commentators trying to reinvent the job so they don't sound like Jimmy Hill, it's what happens sometimes. 

[Stevo985]

11 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I'm sure I'm guilty of multiple "lazy" tags in the gestede thread, I **** hated him, think lazy was probably one of my Softer criticisms of him

Bent from my experience got a lot of "lazy" abuse from the holte, especially for not jumping for headers he had absolutely no chance of winning or no one to actually flick it on to as under ginger bollocks every other player was in our own half, royally pissed me off 

I think physical strength and things like "beast" are definitley attributed to black players - but then at the same time Benteke was strong as an ox, so was Carew, gabby in his prime and Ashley Young were probably our most athletic players... Its not always misplaced... But then at least 3 games this season I've watched games with commentators that had blatantly never seen Wesley play and they wheeled out the handbook of big black lad stereotypes, I put it part down to racism and part down to them being shit at their job 

 

8 hours ago, Withnail said:

Mark Viduka was always described as lazy.  Actually google Viduka and Lazy and he even describes himself as lazy.  What a goose.  Nice hat trick against Liverpool mind. 

Just to be clear, what I'm saying doesn't mean that everyone who has ever called a black player lazy is racist. Some black players are lazy. But so are some white players. And similarly it doesn't mean no white players have ever been called lazy. Of course they have. My point was black players get labelled with it far more often than white players, in my opinion.
Similar with the "beast" thing. More black players get described as beasts than white players. That doesn't mean no white player has ever been called a beast.

It doesn't even mean that ANYONE who calls a black player lazy is racist. That's not what I'm getting at.

 

I'm just saying that there are certain things that black players get called just because they're black. It's not deliberate. it's not a commentator or fan thinking "I hate black people so I'm going to call this guy lazy"
It's just that certain things get ingrained into people because of racial stereotypes. It doesn't necessarily mean it's malicious.

Just like someone who crosses the road when they see a group of black people walking towards them because they think they look suspicious. That person isn't necessarily being deliberately racist, it's just a stereotype that they've had instilled into them at some point.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Graham t said:

Personally, I don't  believe you can legislate racism out of existence . It begins and ends with education, mostly at home through the efforts of parents etc.

I have two grown up girls, they don't see 'colour' at all, just character.....

Maybe I didn't do a bad job after all.

'Regards'

VLD.

Given your recent posts on the subject, I'd be surprised to be quite honest.

[Stevo985]

13 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

So is calling a strong black player "beast" lazy?  Yea, find your own word.  Is it racist?  Nah, not in my book, it's just the latest fad word.  And when you get middle aged commentators trying to reinvent the job so they don't sound like Jimmy Hill, it's what happens sometimes. 

See my post above to clarify what i meant. I'm not calling people racist for using the word "beast" or "lazy"

(and by the way I disagree about when beast started being used. it's been used to describe players for decades.)

[chrisp65]

...and just to add my bit, Akinfenwa was self titled as ‘Beast Mode’ it was an attempt to launch a brand.

 

 

[lapal_fan]

20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

...and just to add my bit, Akinfenwa was self titled as ‘Beast Mode’ it was an attempt to launch a brand.

 

 

And then by that time stuff like Soccer AM was picking up the ball and running with it because it became his thing to mention on the circuit (he was really prominent on tv interviews for such a limited footballer in league 1 or whatever). 

29 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

See my post above to clarify what i meant. I'm not calling people racist for using the word "beast" or "lazy"

(and by the way I disagree about when beast started being used. it's been used to describe players for decades.)

I'm also not saying Akinfenwa invented that label either (why I mentioned Shearer), but as a power lifting footballer, the word became much more publicly used to describe strong players on the back of it. 

33 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Just like someone who crosses the road when they see a group of black people walking towards them because they think they look suspicious. That person isn't necessarily being deliberately racist, it's just a stereotype that they've had instilled into them at some point.

And just on this one, I really don't like it as an example because I myself have personally beat myself up over it, but I think most sensible people would cross a road if they came upon a group of *any* people.  I really don't think the colour of skin has anything to do with this kind of stuff.  It's just as a solo person approaching a group, survivability tells you, you have to give groups space - skin colour doesn't matter one bit.  Or at least I'd hope not.  But would a person approaching a group of black people think "I'm in danger because they are black", really? 

And the reason I've beat myself up about it is because of my own perception on how they *may* think.  A bit like if I'm walking behind a woman on her own, I have an internal battle saying "I should give her space to show I'm not a threat", but by the same token I think "I shouldn't have to give her space (more space than normal), because I'm absolutely not a threat to her".  She'd probably whoop my ass anyway. 

But it's the same train of thought.  A group of white kids or a group of girls, old ladies, whatever - it doesn't matter - I'm crossing that **** road man. 

[bannedfromHandV]

‘Beast mode’ went far beyond Akinfenwa though didn’t it? Im sure it was a FIFA (video game) thing too.....

[tonyh29]

Pages of debate about if describing someone as a beast is racist , lazy , stereotyping but nobody cares that average white van man is then stereotyped as racist  .

To be clear this isn't me doing a  White lives matter post  and my posting history in this thread is open for scrutiny to show I've made no such support of such posts  ....  

I just think yet again VT has let itself down , if you want to educate people about lazy stereotypes , using a lazy stereotype to make a point isn't the way to do it imo  .. yeah, there will be the usual " but nobody did"  and "that's not what was said"   , but its there as a theme through this thread , the so called "sneering"  if you like ...

If someone posts an ignorant comment , then its fair game to reply to it and discuss and even try to educate that poster  , generic Emily Thornberry type posts  , nah VT is smarter than that

Edited July 2, 2020 by tonyh29

[sharkyvilla]

I thought John Parkin was the original 'beast'.  

[Seat68]

6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I thought John Parkin was the original 'beast'.  

[sne]

50 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

‘Beast mode’ went far beyond Akinfenwa though didn’t it? Im sure it was a FIFA (video game) thing too.....

Think there is some NFL player who has it trademarked 

[HanoiVillan]

Without commenting directly on the etymology of the word 'beast' as applied to sports talk and sports commentary (because I don't know where or how it began, or what the intention was) and just making a general point - just because something was first said/adopted/embraced by a black person (or any other group), doesn't mean that other members of that group cannot find it offensive or argue that it is later.