Tyrone Mings

[sheepyvillian]

6 minutes ago, Zero7 said:

I'm sure other fans forums are the same but we take great joy in slagging our players off, not so long ago we had Chester and Richards in our defence..... All defenders make errors, especially against top sides when you have to defend a lot. How about just supporting and getting behind the players for once. 

If a player consistently makes mistakes that are at the price of a defeat, then obviously that player is going to get criticism. That's what we're here for to express our thoughts about the players and the performances they put in. I gave the same criticism to Cash because his error also cost us heavily and not for the first time.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Zero7 said:

No, not at all, but soon after a loss, all our players are shit and need shipping out, it's all about perspective, I don't get overly excited after a win or too doom and gloom after a loss. 

Yeah there will be some hot heads in the immediate aftermath but it is not true that our players are called to be shipped out., it is rhetoric. I don't think I have ever seen a post calling for Emi M to be shipped out. The problem with Mings is that is consistently makes costly errors. People don't like to admit this or accept this and we end up with the ridiculous comparisons to VVD above and talk of Mings being one of the best CBs around. He is a good player, but he is not a top 6 CB. If we have aspirations of top 6 then Mings is not the player for us

[sheepyvillian]

2 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

For whats it worth though, don't think tyrone has ever made the same number of costly errors leading to goals/chances within one 90 mins that VVD did against us in the 7-2

But that's a wierd one off game where Liverpool weren't at the races. My point with Mings and Cash is, their mistakes seem to come when we are usually in front or level and they just seem to erase all the momentum from the team. The Chelsea game was a prime example of that.

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

I never understand the stick Tyrone gets. Our resurgence as a club started the day that he walked in the door. Is he perfect? No. Could he be improved upon? Definitely. Is he our best defender? By a country mile. People who get gooey eyed over Konsa whilst giving Mings stick do not understand football. 

We were playing Jedi as a CB because Bruce sold or loaned our CBs out and we didn't have 2 CBs to start a game. A competent CB was going to make a huge difference. Also, our resurgence came about when Jack returned from his Kidney injury he got against Watford and kept him out for about 3 months. It is a bit of a stretch to attribute our good run down to Mings 

[Tomaszk]

22 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Is the suggestion that Mings and VVD are similar standard CBs? 

How anyone could read the comments and begin to consider that being the point is bemusing.

22 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Ah. That makes more sense now.

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

How anyone could read the comments and begin to consider that being the point is bemusing.

Ah. That makes more sense now.

Incredible. Reading is hard.

[Vive_La_Villa]

See that Chelsea goal. Wouldn’t happen against us because Mings has a role of attacking every corner. Yes he **** up against Lukaku. But boy does he do so much for us.

[wilko154]

21 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

If a player consistently makes mistakes that are at the price of a defeat, then obviously that player is going to get criticism. That's what we're here for to express our thoughts about the players and the performances they put in. I gave the same criticism to Cash because his error also cost us heavily and not for the first time.

Tyrone Mings has made one error leading to goals this season, 33 players have also made an error leading to a goal (Seamus Coleman has made two).

Last season Tyrone Mings made one error leading to a goal. 13 players made more than one mistake, and a total of 80 players made mistakes leading to goals.

The fact is centre backs make mistakes leading to goals, it's how football works. If they were 100% fool-proof they would be the perfect centre back. VVD almost is, yet has made an error leading to goals in both of the two previous seasons.

Mings has improved his defending in recent seasons, he's a player always improving due to the low amount of games he's played in his career. He now takes much less risks with the ball, he clears his lines when required and is overall a better player for it. There's a reason why he's the captain of a PL club, and a recurring member of the England squad.

Unfortunately he's become a scape goat in our fanbase. 

Why aren't we talking about Mings having the 2nd most clearances in the league with 86? He clears the ball in vital areas week in week out for us.

Why aren't we talking about Mings playing the most passes in our team this season with 738, 150 more than any other player. That combined with the fact he has the 2nd most touches in our side shows how much we rely on him at the back, with everything going through him. Which player on the pitch is going to be most liable to a mistake? Probably the guy that everything is going through.

[villalad21]

Mings is very overrated among villa fans. 

OK pl level defender but not the quality required for a team aspiring for top 6. 

Making too many mistakes and costing too many points. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by villalad21

[sheepyvillian]

52 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

Tyrone Mings has made one error leading to goals this season, 33 players have also made an error leading to a goal (Seamus Coleman has made two).

Last season Tyrone Mings made one error leading to a goal. 13 players made more than one mistake, and a total of 80 players made mistakes leading to goals.

The fact is centre backs make mistakes leading to goals, it's how football works. If they were 100% fool-proof they would be the perfect centre back. VVD almost is, yet has made an error leading to goals in both of the two previous seasons.

Mings has improved his defending in recent seasons, he's a player always improving due to the low amount of games he's played in his career. He now takes much less risks with the ball, he clears his lines when required and is overall a better player for it. There's a reason why he's the captain of a PL club, and a recurring member of the England squad.

Unfortunately he's become a scape goat in our fanbase. 

Why aren't we talking about Mings having the 2nd most clearances in the league with 86? He clears the ball in vital areas week in week out for us.

Why aren't we talking about Mings playing the most passes in our team this season with 738, 150 more than any other player. That combined with the fact he has the 2nd most touches in our side shows how much we rely on him at the back, with everything going through him. Which player on the pitch is going to be most liable to a mistake? Probably the guy that everything is going through.

You're wrong , he's made two against Chelsea that have led to goals. One the other night and the back pass in the 3 - 0 defeat at Stamford Bridge. And that's just off the top of my head. He has cost us points on numerous occasions. I'm not interested in looking for scapegoats, that old cliche doesn't wash with  me. He his fat too error- prone for my liking. That mistake with Lukaku was criminal for a player at that level. 

I was also critical of Cash, who is another who continues to make mistakes that prove very costly. All players make mistakes, but it's the cost of those mistakes that matter for me.

Edited December 29, 2021 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Making too many mistakes and costing too many points. 

You just cannot not get away from that fact. He's a liability. 

[villalad21]

5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

You just cannot not get away from that fact. He's a liability. 

He's not a liability but he will cost you too many points in order to make the top 6.

He is a bottom half level defender imo. 

[sheepyvillian]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He's not a liability but he will cost you too many points in order to make the top 6.

He is a bottom half level defender imo. 

If a player constantly costs you points then by definition he's a liability. 

[tomav84]

We will not buy a better cb than mings until we qualify for Europe. Sorry to break it to you all. I'd say he's the best cb outside of the scum 6

[villaglint]

My two penneth.

If we replace Mings we will also have to quickly replace Konsa too. He’s so strong and commanding he makes those next to him better too. 
 

I think he is a very good CB full stop. Is he perfect, No. 
 

Yes he does make too many mistakes but you’d be well pushed to find a player in our squad you couldn’t level that claim at. 
 

Watkins misses a lot of chances, McGinn has games where he gives the ball away too much. Cash can’t cross, Buendia loses it in areas that leave us exposed etc etc.

We have a decent team in most areas and to break into the top four we’ll need more “special” players but they’ll cost huge amounts and not easy to attract. So it’ll be a one by one thing and the beady eye will be on most of them I think. 

[CVByrne]

He's a good player, but we'll never get to where Gerrard wants to take us and build up from the back with Mings. He just doesn't work with teams who have a high press and panics and sends long balls up the field. I think Gerrard wants a new CB and CDM who are ball players so they are comfortable in possession. McGinn or Konsa will become Captain next season

[Indigo]

43 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

He's a good player, but we'll never get to where Gerrard wants to take us and build up from the back with Mings. He just doesn't work with teams who have a high press and panics and sends long balls up the field. I think Gerrard wants a new CB and CDM who are ball players so they are comfortable in possession. McGinn or Konsa will become Captain next season

Konsa needs to step up in the same way in that sense for me though. He makes less mistakes but he's also far more passive so you'd expect that to be the case. Mings bests him in most areas in possession statistically this season, including making passes under pressure, progressive passes, carrying the ball etc. Konsa's pass completion % is higher but that seems to be because he often either gives it to Mings or Martinez to go forwards rather than doing it himself. I think the ability is more than there with him to be a ball-playing defender but it's why it's frustrating that we don't actually see that from him. As it stands I think Mings and Konsa are still the perfect foils for one another, it's funny how much they exactly cover for one another's deficiencies. 

[CVByrne]

2 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Konsa needs to step up in the same way in that sense for me though. He makes less mistakes but he's also far more passive so you'd expect that to be the case. Mings bests him in most areas in possession statistically this season, including making passes under pressure, progressive passes, carrying the ball etc. Konsa's pass completion % is higher but that seems to be because he often either gives it to Mings or Martinez to go forwards rather than doing it himself. I think the ability is more than there with him to be a ball-playing defender but it's why it's frustrating that we don't actually see that from him. As it stands I think Mings and Konsa are still the perfect foils for one another, it's funny how much they exactly cover for one another's deficiencies. 

Well you don't need both CBs to be ball players. Take City for example. Diaz had the most completed passes in 2021 out of any player in the Premier League. A CB with the most passes shows where the game is at with the best team. What we need is a "go to" CB who is calm with the ball at his feet and can pass his way out of a press. Matip at Liverpool is doing the same. 

There are different ways to defend. If we hold possession for longer we will have less chances against us conceded. Gerrard knows this is how we compete. Konsa is young enough that he can adapt his play more, while Mings is too much of a liability in many of these games. 

Horses for courses though. If we play a team who doesn't have a high press Mings is very good. He's also an on field leader too. We need that different option and with Tuanzebe off and Hause needed to go to find football a new CB should be one who is / can be better than Mings

[sheepyvillian]

On 28/12/2021 at 23:15, Peter Griffin said:

We were playing Jedi as a CB because Bruce sold or loaned our CBs out and we didn't have 2 CBs to start a game. A competent CB was going to make a huge difference. Also, our resurgence came about when Jack returned from his Kidney injury he got against Watford and kept him out for about 3 months. It is a bit of a stretch to attribute our good run down to Mings 

Just a bit.

[Mic09]

He is not a liability, but he does tend to do silly thing (I'm glad that's stopped under Gerrard). Look at the wolves game. 

He hasn't lead to any goals there. But his poor decision making, time wasting, hoofing when no need to do so, kicking the ball out while at 2-2 has all added up. 

Now, I love Mings. You will struggle to find a better CB outside top 6. (I think Konsa is better but that's a side note )

He is doing just fine. Some criticism is over the top, some seem to defend him when he doesn't deserve it.

I think the truth lies in Mings' favour and I'm glad he continues to do well. Good captain and a great player to have.