Tyrone Mings

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

When you're defending crosses the back post defenders (in this case, Cash and Konsa) have the best view of everything, and should be talking to the front post defenders and keeping the shape tight. Konsa ends up spare here, and that's because he lets a gap open up between him and Mings, and he ends up doubled up with Cash on the back post attacker.

I still think it's a great run by McTominay, which would cause problems for a lot of defences, and we shouldn't be letting the ball into the box. It's a team error. But Konsa blaming Mings was out of order.

I think when the ball goes out like that and you’re expecting it might be whipped back in as it was (terrible closing down form both forwards) you have to hold your line. Konsa has pushed up to try to play the rest of the forward offside and I think that’s why he questioned Mings for being slow to get up, but it didn’t matter as it was the guy who ran from deep without any challenge from midfield that scored. It was fortunate that the ball dropped squarely between the two centre backs and sometimes it’s something you just can’t account for if it does come in as you say, the space between them isn’t that bad.

[sparrow1988]

Anybody looking to blame Mings for that really has an agenda against him. He is the only person in the box marking a man. He does exactly what you would want your CB to do in that situation, get close to their most dangerous player in the centre of the box. You've got Buendia, Ramsey, Luiz and Konsa, who I think gets distracted by Cavani's - also a big threat in this situation - movement, who all could have done more.

At the end of the day it's a cracking ball in, clever movement by Cavani and a brilliantly timed run by McTominay. Sometimes people just need to accept you can get outdone by a bit of class instead of looking for a scapegoat in every situation.

[HeyAnty]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

if by "decided to wander" you mean mark varane (his man) whilst luiz points and lets mctominay walk past him and konsa marks no one

mings is watching varane, luiz is watching the ball, konsa is watching everything...and does nothing...

that goal is on luiz for losing his man and konsa for doing nothing, if you want to stretch it further its on ings and watkins for letting the ball come in

any suggestion thats on mings is utter bollocks, you dont know what you are looking at

 

Utter Bollox, classy!  Way to win an argument, result to insults.  What age are you, 12?

Dion Dublin even said at the time the CB’s were poor and should have headed it away.

 

[lexicon]

29 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

Utter Bollox, classy!  Way to win an argument, result to insults.  What age are you, 12?

Dion Dublin even said at the time the CB’s were poor and should have headed it away.

 

Way to try to change the subject instead of admitting that you were wrong. 

[Viloon]

Mings and Konsa are both behind their men in those pics, which means unless it goes over them (the utd players) they will win the header. If you are marking someone the last place you go is behind them when a cross is coming in to the box. Poor from both CBs.

[Condimentalist]

I've criticised Mings plenty for his errors, but that goal is not really on him and certainly not specifically on him. Konsa probably more culpable of the two but actually it was a brilliant cross and a good run. If anything maybe we should have got out quicker, and Ings could have blocked the cross. 

[a m ole]

55 minutes ago, Viloon said:

Mings and Konsa are both behind their men in those pics, which means unless it goes over them (the utd players) they will win the header. If you are marking someone the last place you go is behind them when a cross is coming in to the box. Poor from both CBs.

Konsa doesn’t have a man and Mings does exactly what he’s supposed to do.

[Mazrim]

7 minutes ago, a m ole said:

Konsa doesn’t have a man and Mings does exactly what he’s supposed to do.

It's not a corner. It's not necessary to man mark. Not for the centre halves anyway. If they both man mark, get dragged out of position and the ball goes to where they should be, It's bad defending. That's what the video guy at Bodymoor will be going over today I reckon.

[a m ole]

4 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

It's not a corner. It's not necessary to man mark. Not for the centre halves anyway. If they both man mark, get dragged out of position and the ball goes to where they should be, It's bad defending. That's what the video guy at Bodymoor will be going over today I reckon.

You reckon wrong. It’s bad defending from our forwards and our midfield. What do you mean if they man mark they get dragged out of position? They’re in position. Konsa isn’t marking anyone. Mings is positioning himself to defend against Varane having a tap in. McTominay runs from deep, where the midfielders are. You follow the run. It’s simple. Luiz hands him off to intercept a possible low cross and Buendia and Ramsey stand still. The only centre back at fault is Konsa who could have attacked it but likely would have lost out anyway due to how easy it was for McTominay to stroll in.

Tell me, how many games have you played at CB?

Edited January 11, 2022 by a m ole

[Vive_La_Villa]

That ones on the centre halves for me. Luiz is about 4 foot, even if he tracked the goalscorer he would probably get beaten in the air. You want one your two big centre halves attacking that. Like they did for pretty much the whole of the game apart from that one lapse.

[Zatman]

Truth is on here that McTominay could have popped it in from 40 yards and Mings would still be blamed for something 

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That ones on the centre halves for me. Luiz is about 4 foot, even if he tracked the goalscorer he would probably get beaten in the air. You want one your two big centre halves attacking that. Like they did for pretty much the whole of the game apart from that one lapse.

One of the midfielders HAS to follow the run. Doesn’t matter how tall you are, although Luiz is like 5’9 5’10, he’s not Bernardo Silva. For me, that was Ramsey’s pick up though.

Midfielders are still responsible for challenging the ball, which doesn’t mean leaping a foot higher than tall players, it means getting your body in the way and making it as awkward as possible at all times.

That is exactly what I think Konsa is reacting to as the goal goes in as Mings doesn’t say anything to him - he’s fuming that McTominay had an uncontested run at him. Yes he could have challenged himself, but he also had to watch Cavani on his shoulder.

You defend everything as a squad, it’s not as simple as ‘CB big and tall if ball high use head’

[sparrow1988]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Truth is on here that McTominay could have popped it in from 40 yards and Mings would still be blamed for something 

Didn’t strike the fear of god in to him with a death stare. Get Hause in for the next game. He can at least threaten to lock the forwards in a room with his music on a continuous loop. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by sparrow1988

[AV82]

It was also a freakishly good cross. The united fans were as surprised as we were.

[Rightdm00]

54 minutes ago, a m ole said:

One of the midfielders HAS to follow the run. Doesn’t matter how tall you are, although Luiz is like 5’9 5’10, he’s not Bernardo Silva. For me, that was Ramsey’s pick up though.

Midfielders are still responsible for challenging the ball, which doesn’t mean leaping a foot higher than tall players, it means getting your body in the way and making it as awkward as possible at all times.

That is exactly what I think Konsa is reacting to as the goal goes in as Mings doesn’t say anything to him - he’s fuming that McTominay had an uncontested run at him. Yes he could have challenged himself, but he also had to watch Cavani on his shoulder.

You defend everything as a squad, it’s not as simple as ‘CB big and tall if ball high use head’

Wish everyone had to read that statement before making a post blaming a goal on a singular defender. It does happen at times but most goals are a product of a team committing multiple errors. 

 

[Mazrim]

46 minutes ago, a m ole said:

You reckon wrong. It’s bad defending from our forwards and our midfield. What do you mean if they man mark they get dragged out of position? They’re in position. Konsa isn’t marking anyone. Mings is positioning himself to defend against Varane having a tap in. McTominay runs from deep, where the midfielders are. You follow the run. It’s simple. Luiz hands him off to intercept a possible low cross and Buendia and Ramsey stand still. The only centre back at fault is Konsa who could have attacked it but likely would have lost out anyway due to how easy it was for McTominay to stroll in.

Tell me, how many games have you played at CB?

- Bad defending from everyone. But agreed.
- What do I mean if they man mark they get dragged out of position? Quite literally what happened to Mings. If he doesn't go to pick up Varane, he's there to head it clear. If he leaves it and the ball drops to Varane there are other players to pick it up and Varane at no point has "a tap in" because Mings would still be between Varane and the goal if he held his position. The black and white of it is Mings just heads that ball away if he didn't follow Varane. Presumably he had "My Old Man, said Follow Varane" in his head at the time?
- A midfielder should have followed McTominays run, true. However the depth of the delivery means its right in the area of responsibility for the centre halves to head clear. Konsa expected Mings to be there. Still, Konsa could have done better. Mings should have been there.
- How many games have I played at CB? None. If it matters, I did play semi pro (midfield) for a good while and was involved with coaching. I presume I am in the presence of another footballing genius? Dion Dublin reckoned Mings was out of position I believe. I think he played centre half at a decent level.

 

All this is getting daft though. Was it all Mings fault? No. Was he to blame in any way? Yes.
It was a soft goal. The team have to take it on the chin as a team.
 

[a m ole]

58 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Quite literally what happened to Mings. If he doesn't go to pick up Varane, he's there to head it clear. If he leaves it and the ball drops to Varane there are other players to pick it up and Varane at no point has "a tap in" because Mings would still be between Varane and the goal if he held his position. The black and white of it is Mings just heads that ball away if he didn't follow Varane.

What this boils down to is IF Mings takes a huge risk, it pays off in this instance. What it doesn’t mean is that it was the right thing to do. Yes, he could have cleared it if he’d correctly guessed that his midfield wouldn’t do their job, left the player he was covering, anticipated exactly where the ball was going to land and out-jumped a running player from a standing start which to be fair is something he is capable of doing.

What it isn’t is a mistake from Mings, and what it DEFINITELY isn’t is more proof of him DrOpPiNg A cLaNgEr EvErY gAmE as has been suggested.

It speaks volumes that this conversation is in the Mings thread and not the Ramsey thread or the Konsa thread.

Edited January 11, 2022 by a m ole

[Mazrim]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

What this boils down to is IF Mings takes a huge risk, it pays off in this instance. What it doesn’t mean is that it was the right thing to do. Yes, he could have cleared it if he’d correctly guessed that his midfield wouldn’t do their job, left the player he was covering, anticipated exactly where the ball was going to land and out-jumped a running player from a standing start which to be fair is something he is capable of doing.

What it isn’t is a mistake from Mings, and what it DEFINITELY isn’t is more proof of him DrOpPiNg A cLaNgEr EvErY gAmE as has been suggested.

It speaks volumes that this conversation is in the Mings thread and not the Ramsey thread or the Konsa thread.

And I disagree with you. I disagree with how you see the game in this instance, and what Mings' duties are in this particular instance. I disagree that his first duty was to follow an opposition defender in open play rather than hold his position to cover. I disagree that you are an authority to say what anything definitely is or isn't, obnoxious capitals or not. And I'm also bored of this narrative that Mings is overly criticised , especially when my posts are quoted when I myself have rarely criticised him.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Mazrim said:

And I disagree with you. I disagree with how you see the game in this instance, and what Mings' duties are in this particular instance. I disagree that his first duty was to follow an opposition defender in open play rather than hold his position to cover. I disagree that you are an authority to say what anything definitely is or isn't, obnoxious capitals or not. And I'm also bored of this narrative that Mings is overly criticised , especially when my posts are quoted when I myself have rarely criticised him.

He's not following an opposition player in to open play he's marking him! 

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, Mazrim said:

And I disagree with you. I disagree with how you see the game in this instance, and what Mings' duties are in this particular instance. I disagree that his first duty was to follow an opposition defender in open play rather than hold his position to cover. I disagree that you are an authority to say what anything definitely is or isn't, obnoxious capitals or not. And I'm also bored of this narrative that Mings is overly criticised , especially when my posts are quoted when I myself have rarely criticised him.

He IS holding his position to cover, the defence is in a line of 4 pretty evenly spaced. It just so happens he’s within a yard of Varane who he needs to focus on in case the ball goes to him. That’s called marking. If the ball goes over your head it’s the defender behind you who’s responsibility it is to challenge.

The rest of your post, lol ok.

Edited January 11, 2022 by a m ole