a-k Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mic09 said: He is not a liability, but he does tend to do silly thing (I'm glad that's stopped under Gerrard). Look at the wolves game. He hasn't lead to any goals there. But his poor decision making, time wasting, hoofing when no need to do so, kicking the ball out while at 2-2 has all added up. Now, I love Mings. You will struggle to find a better CB outside top 6. (I think Konsa is better but that's a side note ) He is doing just fine. Some criticism is over the top, some seem to defend him when he doesn't deserve it. I think the truth lies in Mings' favour and I'm glad he continues to do well. Good captain and a great player to have. Also, albeit due to injuries, West Ham have been sarting Dawson and Diop at CB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Stats can be very misleading as we all know. And also comparing centre backs based on errors . Because playing for a team that has more possession means less stress on the back 4. They will take the ball on average in more comfortable positions. Less chances against equals less mistakes. If you think its easy to find a better centreback than Mings then you are a better man than me . Because of all the variables that come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 28/12/2021 at 21:28, sheepyvillian said: Think of the mistakes he has made. All were probably avoidable with a bit more calm thought. Also, how many points have his mistakes cost us ? I can think of a few just off my head. Tbh, I wouldn't have him in the top 20 of centre - halves I have seen in a Villa shirt. There are times, I love him and times, I doubt him. He seems to me, that he is very selective, when he plans to be physical and can be clumsy too.....Lukaku seems to be a player, he is uneasy with and sadly it shows. I think moving forward, this regime will challenge him more, so if he wants to stay in the team, his challenges in a game need more conviction. However, you are right, his errors always seem to concede goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaslash Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 How many defenders can really force Lukaku off the ball? Mings played that header wrong but it was going to be tough to get that header no matter what you tried. You really saw how strong Lukaku was for that 2nd penalty. If I wasn’t a Villa fan I would have to laugh when Targett just bounced off Lukaku. I was screaming for him to take him down before he got to the box but I’m not sure even a leg tackle would have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, villaslash said: How many defenders can really force Lukaku off the ball? Mings played that header wrong but it was going to be tough to get that header no matter what you tried. You really saw how strong Lukaku was for that 2nd penalty. If I wasn’t a Villa fan I would have to laugh when Targett just bounced off Lukaku. I was screaming for him to take him down before he got to the box but I’m not sure even a leg tackle would have worked. You are right, Lukaku is a handful, no denying that......But Brighton seemed to make a better fist of it. We need to move away from the excuses and apply ourselves better in these situations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2021 57 minutes ago, TRO said: You are right, Lukaku is a handful, no denying that......But Brighton seemed to make a better fist of it. We need to move away from the excuses and apply ourselves better in these situations. I'm glad you said it, Ming's never jumped with Lukaku, he wasn't watching the ball, he was trying to wrestle with him. Martinez looked at him with open mouthed amazement. Free header for any premier League striker is going to be on target, Lukaku just happened to be good enough to beat Martinez. If a player makes a mistake then it has to be acknowledged , spoke about and rectified. There's no room for sentiment at this level. Ming's should have jumped for the fkn ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, tinker said: I'm glad you said it, Ming's never jumped with Lukaku, he wasn't watching the ball, he was trying to wrestle with him. Martinez looked at him with open mouthed amazement. Free header for any premier League striker is going to be on target, Lukaku just happened to be good enough to beat Martinez. If a player makes a mistake then it has to be acknowledged , spoke about and rectified. There's no room for sentiment at this level. Ming's should have jumped for the fkn ball. Yes he should. Veltman also should have challenged Lukaku along with Moder for his goal at Brighton. Both Rudiger and Chalobah should have challenged Welbeck, much shorter than they are, for the equaliser. As previously mentioned, Van Dyke should have closed down Lookman instead of back-pedalling and turning away from the shot. All from the most recent game played. Its football, it’s not easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 minute ago, a m ole said: Its football, it’s not easy. Look if he had beat 3 players and slipped it into the corner then I can see your point, watch the goal again and tell me what Ming's was thinking. We're looking to improve and to challenge we can't afford players that switch off and cost us cheap goals. Cash did it as well. It's a reoccurring theme with certain players . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaslash Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, tinker said: Free header for any premier League striker is going to be on target, Hmm… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, tinker said: I'm glad you said it, Ming's never jumped with Lukaku, he wasn't watching the ball, he was trying to wrestle with him. Martinez looked at him with open mouthed amazement. Free header for any premier League striker is going to be on target, Lukaku just happened to be good enough to beat Martinez. If a player makes a mistake then it has to be acknowledged , spoke about and rectified. There's no room for sentiment at this level. Ming's should have jumped for the fkn ball. Like you, it hasn't sat well with me, becuase unlike an error, it was a misjudgement or complacency. I would imagine, that incident, never went unnoticed at Bodymoor heath on Monday morning.....I would want to know why he played the man and not attempted the ball.....If he went for the ball, you wouldn't hear a squeak out of me. I was also miffed at why Cash was left on his own, when 2 players or ours were in the vicinity, seemingly watching the match. I accept errors, when genuine attempts are made to challenge......I don't accept those situations, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, TRO said: There are times, I love him and times, I doubt him. He seems to me, that he is very selective, when he plans to be physical and can be clumsy too.....Lukaku seems to be a player, he is uneasy with and sadly it shows. I think moving forward, this regime will challenge him more, so if he wants to stay in the team, his challenges in a game need more conviction. However, you are right, his errors always seem to concede goals. All this scapegoat nonsense. It's just a way of avoiding the truth. The amount of points Mings has cost us is ridiculous. You can't get away from that, and Matty Cash is not too far behind him. As for the incident with Lukaku, any manager would be disappointed at seeing that. It was inexplicable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, a m ole said: Yes he should. Veltman also should have challenged Lukaku along with Moder for his goal at Brighton. Both Rudiger and Chalobah should have challenged Welbeck, much shorter than they are, for the equaliser. As previously mentioned, Van Dyke should have closed down Lookman instead of back-pedalling and turning away from the shot. All from the most recent game played. Its football, it’s not easy. You are right Van Dyke was at fault....and I guess it will be noted at Melwood. It might be football.....but the less mistakes you make, the more likely, you will take the prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, TRO said: You are right, Lukaku is a handful, no denying that......But Brighton seemed to make a better fist of it. We need to move away from the excuses and apply ourselves better in these situations. I thought the same watching last night. first game back as well, we didnt handle him well at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) If you wanna actually analyse what he did wrong, it was nothing to do with not jumping or challenging or playing the man not the ball, as the chance to clear was already gone as soon as the cross came in. He wasn’t close enough to Lukaku in the first place which meant he couldn’t anticipate get to the ball first, it was his positioning. Nudging Lukaku was a last ditch attempt to put him off because he couldn’t reach the ball first and knew it. Edited December 30, 2021 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, TRO said: Like you, it hasn't sat well with me, becuase unlike an error, it was a misjudgement or complacency. I would imagine, that incident, never went unnoticed at Bodymoor heath on Monday morning.....I would want to know why he played the man and not attempted the balept errors, when genuine attempts are made to challenge......I don't accept those situations, at all. Mistakes are accepted, lapses in concentration are not acceptable when repeated. As for scapegoating , to a certain extent all criticism can be seen as scapegoating but I think we're past the point of that now. Would like to see some stats on these types of lapses and how much there costing us over last season and this, I can recall quite a few from our back 4, not so many from Konsa but the others , quite a few. We have a good defence but it needs to be improved to push on and that's where my critism is aimed, what we need to push on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: All this scapegoat nonsense. It's just a way of avoiding the truth. The amount of points Mings has cost us is ridiculous. You can't get away from that, and Matty Cash is not too far behind him. As for the incident with Lukaku, any manager would be disappointed at seeing that. It was inexplicable. To be honest Sheepy, I think you have a point. A lot of the good work was undone, by cheap errors......I think Matty does have a few wobbly moments, but on this occasion, I think he was left holding the baby by sleepy team mates, who could have helped....most of the game they had 2 or 3 isolated on the far side of play, meaning when the ball was switched, Matt Cash was on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, a m ole said: If you wanna actually analyse what he did wrong, it was nothing to do with not jumping or challenging or playing the man not the ball, as the chance to clear was already gone as soon as the cross came in. He wasn’t close enough to Lukaku in the first place which meant he couldn’t anticipate get to the ball first, it was his positioning. Nudging Lukaku was a last ditch attempt to put him off because he couldn’t reach the ball first and knew it. Its was a lack of concentration on what was happening with the ball that meant he never knew that ball was going to come in and where it was coming from , his poor position was the result of his lack of concentration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, tinker said: Mistakes are accepted, lapses in concentration are not acceptable when repeated. As for scapegoating , to a certain extent all criticism can be seen as scapegoating but I think we're past the point of that now. Would like to see some stats on these types of lapses and how much there costing us over last season and this, I can recall quite a few from our back 4, not so many from Konsa but the others , quite a few. We have a good defence but it needs to be improved to push on and that's where my critism is aimed, what we need to push on. I don't think it will go unnoticed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: All this scapegoat nonsense. It's just a way of avoiding the truth. The amount of points Mings has cost us is ridiculous. You can't get away from that, and Matty Cash is not too far behind him. As for the incident with Lukaku, any manager would be disappointed at seeing that. It was inexplicable. So you putting the lukaku goal down as a mings mistake and not a konsa one? That's what's not surprising on VT all the mings talk, that goal was a konsa **** up first that's where the goal is completely avoidable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, tinker said: Mistakes are accepted, lapses in concentration are not acceptable when repeated. As for scapegoating , to a certain extent all criticism can be seen as scapegoating but I think we're past the point of that now. Would like to see some stats on these types of lapses and how much there costing us over last season and this, I can recall quite a few from our back 4, not so many from Konsa but the others , quite a few. We have a good defence but it needs to be improved to push on and that's where my critism is aimed, what we need to push on. Last season was recorded as 1 mistake I think What fans define as a mistake and what the PL stats do would be interesting The Lukaku goal for example for me would go down as a konsa mistake leading to a goal, mings role in it would be classed as shit defending but not a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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