Kiwivillan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 13 hours ago, striker said: Think Ming's was a great buy when you consider what Man U paid for Maguire but lately Ming's has been John Stoned meaning over elaborating on the ball. Opposing teams have noted this and are now closing him down quickly hence the recent mistakes. Needs to forget the hype and concentrate more on just defending. Sometimes the best defenders just operate on KISS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I wonder how bad his hamstring is? I imagine he’ll miss this Saturday’s game, could be a couple more after that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanmac Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) This is massive blow. He's made plenty of mistakes over the last few weeks but he is still by far and away our best defender. He will be a big miss for us, particularly at defending set pieces and crosses which he is phenomenal at and i think he is plastered over some cracks in that department. We are relying a lot on Engels now (as it isn't one of Konsa's strengths imo)...the rest of the team are useless at it. I would also say that as good as Engels and Konsa have looked (Konsa less so), i think a big part of that is having Mings next to them. He can compensate for the weaknesses in their game. I felt that way about Tuanzebe last season tbh. Edited December 11, 2019 by villanmac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 hours ago, zab6359 said: Maybe (and this is a just a maybe) We as supporters over hyped them a little early season because of a couple of outstanding performances and they really aren't as good a quality as we hyped them up to be, I suppose we will see over the course of a full season. Naa, not havin this. He was quality on his debut for England too, so the qualities there, just seems a few can't be arsed, or are being asked to do to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, villanmac said: This is massive blow. He's made plenty of mistakes over the last few weeks but he is still by far and away our best defender. He will be a big miss for us, particularly at defending set pieces and crosses which he is phenomenal at and i think he is plastered over some cracks in that department. We are relying a lot on Engels now (as it isn't one of Konsa's strengths imo)...the rest of the team are useless at it. I would also say that as good as Engels and Konsa have looked (Konsa less so), i think a big part of that is having Mings next to them. He can compensate for the weaknesses in their game. I felt that way about Tuanzebe last season tbh. Not sure if i agree. He was part to blame at Leicester's first goal by not getting off the pitch and was also to blame for Man Utd's first goal. It was Mings who caused an unnecessary corner which ultimately ended up in a goal. As well as plenty of other goals being a result of his errors this season. So far he's been the most disappointing player for me apart from Wesley. And he is costing us more points than he is gaining us. Edited December 11, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 53 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Not sure if i agree. He was part to blame at Leicester's first goal by not getting off the pitch and was also to blame for Man Utd's first goal. It was Mings who caused an unnecessary corner which ultimately ended up in a goal. As well as plenty of other goals being a result of his errors this season. So far he's been the most disappointing player for me apart from Wesley. And he is costing us more points than he is gaining us. First of all he isn't costing us more points than he is earning us. It isn't his fault we couldn't d up the back post twice (nearly 3 times) against united. 2nd even if engels had been on he isn't very quick so may not have gotten back in time anyway. Aside from that mings has clearly been nursing the injury to his hamstring since last season with him pulling up with "cramp" in 2 of our playoff games. Now that he is in the England team and playing on a more consistent basis he is no longer getting enough time off to recover. It is no coincidence this occurred after a 3 game week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) I would be tempted to play Hause and Engels on Saturday. Hause is the natural left sided centre back to replace Mings, together with Engels they have a real chance of forming a decent partnership. Nothing against Konsa but he's had a good run in the side, I just think he would be served better on the right hand side learning from Mings. Edited December 11, 2019 by wilko154 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, wilko154 said: I would be tempted to play Hause and Engels on Saturday. Hause is the natural left sided centre back to replace Mings, together with Engels they have a real chance of forming a decent partnership. Nothing against Konsa but he's had a good run in the side, I just think he would be served better on the right hand side learning from Mings. Hause must be rustier than a tin man in a monsoon. His last game was in October in the League cup and he's only played 4 games all season. 3 in the cup and 1 Premier League 2 game. Only been on the bench once for us this season in the PL. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Naa, not havin this. He was quality on his debut for England too, so the qualities there, just seems a few can't be arsed, or are being asked to do to much. I mean, he wasn't exactly playing against the most quality opposition on his debut. I heard he was shakier in the more recent England games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 On 10/12/2019 at 03:58, villalad21 said: Let's see. But it's a bad comparison. Mings and Engels has had many games together at this point. Engels and Konsa barely any. I don’t disagree on Engels and Konsa of course, but the problem with our fans right now is summed up in the idea that Mings and Engels have had ‘many’ games together. They’ve known each other three or four months and played together 15ish times. They are not strangers but the idea that they would have an established partnership after such a short time flies against footballing history. Same with the rest of our players adapting to life in the PL. Agree with your crucial point - hope Konsa and Engels do well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, sne said: Hause must be rustier than a tin man in a monsoon. His last game was in October in the League cup and he's only played 4 games all season. 3 in the cup and 1 Premier League 2 game. Only been on the bench once for us this season in the PL. He's also a cert for at least one lapse in concentration per game so should fill Mings boots perfectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Naa, not havin this. He was quality on his debut for England too, so the qualities there, just seems a few can't be arsed, or are being asked to do to much. Not saying he wasn't 'quality' on his debut but lets put some perspective on this it was in a 0–6 win away to Bulgaria! Big wins often flatter players...............still our best CB though by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 hours ago, wilko154 said: I would be tempted to play Hause and Engels on Saturday. Hause is the natural left sided centre back to replace Mings, together with Engels they have a real chance of forming a decent partnership. Nothing against Konsa but he's had a good run in the side, I just think he would be served better on the right hand side learning from Mings. It really doesn't matter one bit if CB's are left right or two footed makes not one bit of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Why the **** are people saying play Hause I just don't get it? For those that are saying play Hause as a replacement for Mings please explain your reasoning and how you came to that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Sometimes the best defenders just operate on KISS Unfortunately times change and it's not all about defending anymore, it's fashionable to have CB's that 'are happy on the ball' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, zab6359 said: It really doesn't matter one bit if CB's are left right or two footed makes not one bit of difference. It really does. Read this article, it explains exactly why you should play left footed/right footed players at centre back if you have the option. It's both for defensive reasons and attacking reasons for playing the ball out from the back inside the pitch rather than outside. Quote Basic Defensive Instincts As a centre-back in a two-man partnership, much of what you do will be instinctive. You move with the flow of the game, drop off when required and step in when you feel it's right to do so: The decisions take just microseconds in a player's head. A left-sided centre-back (LCB) will regularly be dropping off to his left shoulder, and should he chase a wide man down the line will be looking to block/tackle with his outside foot. Inverted wingers, who cut inside with great quickness and play across a slower defender's rotating body to find space, can sometimes catch a centre-back on their weaker side, but in that instance the go-to response is to force the player off balance and drive him into a midfield colleague. The Passing Game Half a decade ago, centre-backs who could pass out from the back became a real luxury once again. Now, more and more astute midfielders with good size (6' or taller) are being transformed into CBs every day. It's gone from "lump it," to "It'd be nice if you can pass it" to "You need to be able to keep it on the deck." Borussia Dortmund under Jurgen Klopp are just one of many 2013-14 examples of how a ball-playing defender can make the difference in a central position. Mats Hummels is the master of the long pass out of defence, and if you can rely on a centre-back to create via a 30- to 40-yard ball into a playmaker—therefore skipping between the lines and avoiding high pressing—you can negate pressure on your traditional midfield outlets. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1965610-analysing-the-importance-of-a-left-foot-right-balance-in-central-defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, wilko154 said: It really does. Read this article, it explains exactly why you should play left footed/right footed players at centre back if you have the option. It's both for defensive reasons and attacking reasons for playing the ball out from the back inside the pitch rather than outside. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1965610-analysing-the-importance-of-a-left-foot-right-balance-in-central-defence Oh come on don't quote some nondescript (American FFS!) article from 2014. A lot of the best CB pairings in history were same footed (mostly right footed) it's not a big issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 45 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Oh come on don't quote some nondescript (American FFS!) article from 2014. A lot of the best CB pairings in history were same footed (mostly right footed) it's not a big issue! No it's not a big issue, but we have the option to play a left footed centre back at left centre back. Why not play Hause, he did a superb job when he came in last season. We bought him as cover for Mings for exactly this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 It's no biggy for me whether he is left or right footed, DS just needs to play the best CB to cover whilst Mings is out simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Although a left foot / right foot pairing is nice to have, the quality of the players is more important, surely? John Terry was a right-footed LCB. For me our ranking of CBs is: Mings Engels Konsa Hause Chester (and if fit, possibly push him ahead of Hause) I do think Hause's versatility, and our weakness at left back, means he deserves more time on the bench than he's been getting. On 11/12/2019 at 09:10, villalad21 said: So far he's been the most disappointing player for me apart from Wesley. And he is costing us more points than he is gaining us. We all see things differently, but I disagree completely with this one. He's been our best player in several games, and even when he makes mistakes, he usually makes up for it with a goal line clearance or a last ditch tackle. We would be in the relegation zone if we hadn't bought him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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