KentVillan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Really? Why do you feel this need to deny what has happened and defend him so resolutely? Do you not think think they have a team debrief and DS says mate you ****** up there just get rid! He had no options available and tried to be a little clever got caught out and conceded the corner that resulted in a goal, he should be thinking one nil up getting near half time, nothing on here and hoof it past the halfway line! No corner = no goal simple as that. Mings should have done better, not denying that. Just think he wasn't the only player to blame in that passage of play, and it's weird how obsessed people get over stuff like this. We conceded the goal because we didn't defend the corner properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Mings should have done better, not denying that. Just think he wasn't the only player to blame in that passage of play, and it's weird how obsessed people get over stuff like this. We conceded the goal because we didn't defend the corner properly. This is where I think we differ in opinion, I work in an industry where I deal in root cause analysis so you think "We conceded the goal because we didn't defend the corner properly." I think "lets not concede the corner that leads to the goal. " I also agree Mings wasn't the only person that affected that passage of play, but a single action by him (hoof it!) could have made this conversation never happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: In reality, he made a mistake which led to a corner. The corner could and should have been defended better, primarily by Konsa who lost Rashford at the far post. It was a bad mistake that Mings made, I'm not disagreeing with that, but I don't see how 'he was absolutely at fault for the first goal' is a factual statement. You're right. It was poor all round, it's just that Mings' error was more eye catching and 'obvious', Konsa's poor marking required that bit more scrutiny. Honestly I was far too harsh on Mings, mainly because I hate United and we have an absolutely rotten record there and IMO wasted a chance to get a rare win there. But with cooler heads prevailing it's clear that Mings played pretty well overall. Edited December 3, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, zab6359 said: This is where I think we differ in opinion, I work in an industry where I deal in root cause analysis so you think "We conceded the goal because we didn't defend the corner properly." I think "lets not concede the corner that leads to the goal. " I also agree Mings wasn't the only person that affected that passage of play, but a single action by him (hoof it!) could have made this conversation never happen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, KentVillan said: False. This is just after he receives it. No, this is right after he receives it, https://imgur.com/a/nOqtV1b Not this Edited December 3, 2019 by Laughable Chimp 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 So he's not allowed to take one touch to create space for the clearance? In the photo you've shared, his clearance is blocked off by Mata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, KentVillan said: So he's not allowed to take one touch to create space for the clearance? In the photo you've shared, his clearance is blocked off by Mata. He's allowed the touch, but once he's had the touch he should be clearing it once he realizes no pass is open, that's the point you showed in your picture. Instead he tries to be smart and holds on to it more than he should which causees him to lose the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, Laughable Chimp said: He's allowed the touch, but once he's had the touch he should be clearing it once he realizes no pass is open, that's the point you showed in your picture. Instead he tries to be smart and holds on to it more than he should which causees him to lose the ball. I agree with that, but you said he'd "dribbled himself into trouble", and I don't think he had at the point I showed. He did the right thing initially, creating some room for himself, and then (IMO) he was looking for a low pass out to Douglas, but Douglas wasn't offering. So when that wasn't on he took the extra touch which caused all the problems. My point was it's a pretty understandable mistake to make, stuck in the corner being pressed by 3 quick players. It's not symptomatic of Mings becoming an arrogant big time charlie because he's playing for England, or any of the other stuff people were saying about him on Sunday. It's definitely not a reason to consider dropping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Truth is before Mings had that ball in the corner we were pressured, it just so happens Mings was that last guy with the ball before possession was in Man utd's hands and they scored off it all. There were a few players just backing off with the ball and passing around dangerously and they are as equally to blame as Mings, the moves and the blame that led to that Man Utd goal were shared and nobody can deny that. Can't just blame Mings in that situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I agree with that, but you said he'd "dribbled himself into trouble", and I don't think he had at the point I showed. He did the right thing initially, creating some room for himself, and then (IMO) he was looking for a low pass out to Douglas, but Douglas wasn't offering. So when that wasn't on he took the extra touch which caused all the problems. My point was it's a pretty understandable mistake to make, stuck in the corner being pressed by 3 quick players. It's not symptomatic of Mings becoming an arrogant big time charlie because he's playing for England, or any of the other stuff people were saying about him on Sunday. It's definitely not a reason to consider dropping him. If this was one off, I'd agree. But its not. The amount of times he's been caught unnecesarily in posession is too much imo. Its been happening in other games too. Happened several times in the Newcastle game for one and we were lucky not a single one of them cost us a goal. I like the fact that we're trying to pass it out from the back, but that shouldn't by itself excuse the unnecesary mistakes Mings has made because its pretty clear to me he doesn't have the right balance of when to clear, pass or dribble yet. Edited December 3, 2019 by Laughable Chimp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just watching it again 41.10 shocking choice TM absolutely led to the goal! Onwards and upwards UTV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny_Villaman84 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 38 minutes ago, Dave-R said: Truth is before Mings had that ball in the corner we were pressured, it just so happens Mings was that last guy with the ball before possession was in Man utd's hands and they scored off it all. There were a few players just backing off with the ball and passing around dangerously and they are as equally to blame as Mings, the moves and the blame that led to that Man Utd goal were shared and nobody can deny that. Can't just blame Mings in that situation. yes, I didn't cant blame him as he is under pressure without support to him to space to pass around so he stucked, he is decide hold ball bit long see if team-mate make move for receive, and in end opposite trap him in the corner him out, but he have better options to use, 1) kick to throw in rather try kick to long ball toward half-line which line to corner. 2) Rebound to man utd, to gain goalkeeper kick 3) Should kick before to half-line rather hold bit long, and roll space which cause man utd to pile pressure to loose ball (gap roll to running space to clearance or pass, which suppose to keep short roll to control ball better. 4) try dribble past | dummy move to other side to free up Mata as he is slow player as Mings is quick boost acceraltion to create space to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I don't know enough about coaching to know who should have done what and who should have been where, all I know is he needs to stop getting caught on the ball and think quicker. Cheers Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 You see what happened to Mings happen to players all the time, sometimes the opposition will win the ball back to their advantage, it's part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Christ, all this over one small error. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Christ, all this over one small error. To be fair I don't even think it was that big an error, he was put in a tough position by the initial pass and it went out for a corner, the real issue is we didn't defend the corner, specifically THE BACK POST AGAIN! Personally I would be reviewing that issue and working on improving our defending at the back post, then looking at the Mings thing, could he have booted it?, maybe.....but I really don't think that was a big issue, if we defended properly it wouldn't have been a problem . Also wasn't the pass from Grealish?, to be honest I would be more critical of whoever passed him the ball in that position rather than how Mings dealt with it, mings was trying to make the most of a hospital pass. Edited December 3, 2019 by MaVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Also wasn't the pass from Grealish?, to be honest I would be more critical of whoever passed him the ball in that position rather than how Mings dealt with it, mings was trying to make the most of a hospital pass. We almost always look to play it out of danger on that side. No matter who it is. Especially if Grealish is involved. They're doing what they've been asked to do, I'm sure. They will work hard to get better at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 If you want to play football then you have to concede your defenders will make mistakes on the ball from time to time, better players than Mings have been caught. I am sure some people would still complain if he hoofed it clear and United scored from the next attack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Along with Jack, Tyrone is the biggest reason that we have come so far in the past 10 months. We have been awful at the back for years (even with JT we looked somewhat exposed at times) but he single handily rectified that over night. He is a joy to watch and a top bloke to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, Zatman said: If you want to play football then you have to concede your defenders will make mistakes on the ball from time to time, better players than Mings have been caught. I am sure some people would still complain if he hoofed it clear and United scored from the next attack And giving away a corner isn't a terrible mistake really. It happens all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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