useless Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Clearly should be a yellow, clumsy but is going for the ball, that's where his determined face is focused and where his foot is aiming for, he's trying to put the ball out of play for a throw-in, to prevent an attack, even if he was purposely going for the man, which he was not, those tackles happen in every game, and the response is usually 'he took one for the team'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Just now, useless said: Clearly should be a yellow, clumsy but is going for the ball, that's where his determined face is focused and where his foot is aiming for, he's trying to put the ball out of play for a throw-in, to prevent an attack, even if he was purposely going for the man, which he was not, those tackles happen in every game, and the response is usually 'he took one for the team'. Certainly not 'clearly a yellow'. He aggressively took out Udogie's leg with force. But the more I see it the more I do think it's more up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, T-Dog said: So Tielemans, Bailey, Luiz and others worked harder than Ginny yesterday? They were on the pitch longer, but I didn't see a single one of them making the effort he did Luiz was on the pitch for 90 mins so yeah. He's also played as many minutes as McGinn this season and has hardly had a break. Tielemans was shit but nobody expects much more anyway, Bailey poor but neither played the full 90 anyway, so what's your point? It's not a McGinn manhunt anyway so I don't see why you want to continue this or make out he's the only one that tries or wants to win. It's a load of bollocks which is why I responded in the first instance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) I think it’s worth watching the passage of play before the foul and sending off… John wanted to take hold of the game and get us going… we were poor in that second half… He won the ball and launched an attack, creating a chance (something we didn’t do much of) for Zaniolo… who also worked hard when he came on… the lad gets far too much hate and criticism and not many minutes on the pitch to make all that much of an impression… an easy target. John was chasing, harrying, roving etc. and I actually think he lost control/momentum/balance… I find it hard to believe there was any malice… John is not like that… he is an honest, humble and hardworking professional who really “cares”… works his ass off for this team… he went bundling into Udogie and mistimed the tackle… and he has paid a heavy price… the speed at which he was moving made it much worse… it wouldn’t be crazy to say his “head had gone” in a sense (lack of self control) but I don’t think he wanted to harm or injure the player… a 3 match ban for that seems excessive… 1 match would be more acceptable/reasonable… but… it was a straight red… and I honestly did not expect it at the time… he’s made a (rare) mistake but the man has grown into and shone in the leadership role under Unai and given us so much good service… he doesn’t deserve to be criticised or berated by us fans… he’s been largely or even consistently brilliant under this manager… it’s true that he was one of the few out there with the kind of attitude and workrate we needed… I’m sure he was frustrated with our lack of application or effort in trying to dominate and win the game… this just would not have happened if the whole team had actually shown up for the game and played liked we usually do or somewhere near our best… others really need to step up now… with John out the team… I am concerned about how we will manage… we were already so depleted… his teammates really need to show what they are made of now and stop relying on him so much… Edited March 12 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Again, worth watching from when he won the ball and set up a chance to when he was sent off… it’s was almost like one continuous motion or the same momentum… he almost lost his own footing after the foul too… got carried away trying to force us back into the game… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 The club is appealing the red, right? For me, it's borderline. He's not going for the ball, but it's not not violent or malicious or something that would cause injury. But it is very aggressive and possibly cynical. They might consider that he's not a dirty player and that he's captain of the side. Dunno. I'd understand the ultimate decision as valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, maqroll said: The club is appealing the red, right? For me, it's borderline. He's not going for the ball, but it's not not violent or malicious or something that would cause injury. But it is very aggressive and possibly cynical. They might consider that he's not a dirty player and that he's captain of the side. Dunno. I'd understand the ultimate decision as valid. Don’t think they will… the risk of the ban being increased is too big if we tried… might be seen as frivolous or a waste of time… there’s enough of an argument or justification for the red… especially since it still stood after VAR looked at it We will just have to take it… Doug and Tim have to perform or we are going to really struggle… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 38 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Don’t think they will… the risk of the ban being increased is too big if we tried… might be seen as frivolous or a waste of time… there’s enough of an argument or justification for the red… especially since it still stood after VAR looked at it We will just have to take it… Doug and Tim have to perform or we are going to really struggle… He was chasing the game and f*cked up. But at least it was in the run of play unlike Kamara's stupid red. We could use a real athlete or two in midfield. When Carney came on for Chelsea tonight I gritted my teeth. He'd come in handy at the moment. As would JPB... We are vulnerable right now to keep dropping points. If we take 3 points from Wolves and Spam, we'll have done well under the circumstances. I don't think we hold off Spurs. It'll be Villa and Man Utd battling for 5th place. Squeaky Sphincter Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa_Vids Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, maqroll said: The club is appealing the red, right? For me, it's borderline. He's not going for the ball, but it's not not violent or malicious or something that would cause injury. But it is very aggressive and possibly cynical. They might consider that he's not a dirty player and that he's captain of the side. Dunno. I'd understand the ultimate decision as valid. The ban could get extended a further game if rejected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, useless said: Clearly should be a yellow, clumsy but is going for the ball, that's where his determined face is focused and where his foot is aiming for, he's trying to put the ball out of play for a throw-in, to prevent an attack, even if he was purposely going for the man, which he was not, those tackles happen in every game, and the response is usually 'he took one for the team'. They don’t happen in every game. On the other angle it’s very clear he couldn’t realistically have won the ball. There was no cynical purpose to it either, it was just dumb. That’s no attack on McGinn really, get his frustration etc, been excellent this season. Just made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, maqroll said: He was chasing the game and f*cked up. But at least it was in the run of play unlike Kamara's stupid red. We could use a real athlete or two in midfield. When Carney came on for Chelsea tonight I gritted my teeth. He'd come in handy at the moment. As would JPB... We are vulnerable right now to keep dropping points. If we take 3 points from Wolves and Spam, we'll have done well under the circumstances. I don't think we hold off Spurs. It'll be Villa and Man Utd battling for 5th place. Squeaky Sphincter Time Neither of those players would help us much rn, imo… and it’s kind of irrelevant to bring them up… What we lack in this side is Defensive - resilience, prowess, robustness, steel, grit… what have you. We have enough attackers or attack minded players… going forwards, we only need genuine upgrades in that department, if anyone, rather than adding to our numbers… and we could do with keeping them fit most of all (effing sodding injuries) It was bad enough losing Bouba… what a signing he has been… we’d been lacking and crying out for a proper DM and he’s been better and possessed more quality and potential than we imagined we could get or attract to the club. He has made us a much better team and allowed Dougie to shine and be freed from his shackles… a superb double pivot or partnership… John… he is the heartbeat of this team and what a captain and leader he has become. A revelation under Unai. It always give me assurance and confidence knowing he is in the team because you know he’s going to bring complete effort and dedication and will fight and battle for us… he regularly competes and is involved in the midfield scrap or battle… possesses so many qualities (and added strings to his bow like composure, quality, more strength and adeptness in possession and a keener eye for a pass) including his typical energy, drive, determination, aggression, tenacity, intensity… there is so much we miss when he’s not in that team and not performing well, he drives us on… essential. I can’t actually see who is going to take on the slack or that burden now… that’s why I’m concerned… The drop off from these players seems quite immense… I desperately want my fears allayed and to be pleasantly surprised but… I’m struggling to see or imagine it and actually expect some struggle… unless Doug and Tim can really stand up, fight and shine together… we badly need them to… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 9 hours ago, useless said: Clearly should be a yellow, clumsy but is going for the ball, that's where his determined face is focused and where his foot is aiming for, he's trying to put the ball out of play for a throw-in, to prevent an attack, even if he was purposely going for the man, which he was not, those tackles happen in every game, and the response is usually 'he took one for the team'. There is no way he can get the ball from the angle he’s going in at, he was alwa100% going to take Udogie out. Add the fact he doesn’t get the ball, it’s a red all day. If Romero did that on our player, we’d all be shouting red. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 7 hours ago, KentVillan said: They don’t happen in every game. On the other angle it’s very clear he couldn’t realistically have won the ball. There was no cynical purpose to it either, it was just dumb. That’s no attack on McGinn really, get his frustration etc, been excellent this season. Just made a mistake. Yes, there was. It was to stop the counter up the pitch by taking the player out. Players do it all the time but McGinn did it with far too much force, hence the red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I think im okay with it being a red the more annoying thing is that if the ref doesnt give it I dont think VAR do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Frustrating that we've had two reds this season and both were complete idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Frustrating that we've had two reds this season and both were complete idiocy. It's laughable ain't it. 'Raise your hands' like Kamara did, no matter how softly you touch someone, is a straight red. In that same game they let Tarkowski get away with flying through both Diaby and Moreno with 100x more force, risking injuring them and he gets away with them. Edited March 12 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12 10 hours ago, useless said: Clearly should be a yellow, clumsy but is going for the ball, that's where his determined face is focused and where his foot is aiming for, he's trying to put the ball out of play for a throw-in, to prevent an attack, even if he was purposely going for the man, which he was not, those tackles happen in every game, and the response is usually 'he took one for the team'. As I said before I’m not sure it’s a red. But it’s glaringly obvious he is not going for the ball at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 39 minutes ago, Nicho said: I think im okay with it being a red the more annoying thing is that if the ref doesnt give it I dont think VAR do. Hard to say, really. We're never going to find complete consistency when each ref is able to interpret the game differently. I think if the ref has seen it and given a yellow card, then VAR isn't going to overrule the on-pitch decision but then again, they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, lexicon said: Hard to say, really. We're never going to find complete consistency when each ref is able to interpret the game differently. I think if the ref has seen it and given a yellow card, then VAR isn't going to overrule the on-pitch decision but then again, they might. That Robinson one was upgraded from yellow to red by VAR and that was for Liverpool who are supposed to get preferential treatment. Anyway all McGinn had to do was trip him up and pick up a yellow, he has to face the consequences of doing it the way he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 8 hours ago, Villa_Vids said: The ban could get extended a further game if rejected. I would be extremely surprised if they extended the ban following a rejected appeal. As others have said, its a cynical challenge and borderline red (depending on referee and location of foul tbh.. if that was the other side of the pitch and not in front of the Spurs bench its probably a yellow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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