bobzy Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, Zhan_Zhuang said: However we can quite clearly all see he is far from perfect and gives the ball away too much! That much I do know... OK granted he played well against Burnley, but it's a rarity. It's not a rarity at all - which is why he's our top rated played on WhoScored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: It's not a rarity at all - which is why he's our top rated played on WhoScored. Funny considering many still believe he's inconsistent...hence the debate. Yet irrespective of WhoScored we watch the games, and see him giving the ball away too much etc. Guess it just shows how average we are... Fourteenth place, we need to improve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: Aye - they should sack off that "top scorer" nonsense too and just look at goals/90. Are you trying to say per 90 isn't a better way to understand stats? Either way, Salah is winning both top scorer and per 90. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Funny considering many still believe he's inconsistent...hence the debate. Yet irrespective of WhoScored we watch the games, and see him giving the ball away too much etc. Guess it just shows how average we are... Fourteenth place, we need to improve! He's definitely inconsistent - most non-elite footballers are... ...but I think a lot of what we see (and read about on here) is confirmation bias. If you look for someone to misplace a pass and then you spot them doing it, there you go. It's a confirmed thing. But you won't be looking at, say, Jacob Ramsey do exactly the same thing because you're predisposed to thinking John McGinn needs to do better. Same thing happens with Ollie Watkins FWIW. Everyone says he has a bad touch, so people look out for it and comment on it in the match thread. All the time. (Edit: I'm not saying they don't have these weaknesses in their game necessarily. Just that it's "more noticed" with these players) Edited May 20, 2022 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Are you trying to say per 90 isn't a better way to understand stats? Either way, Salah is winning both top scorer and per 90. Nope - but you said that being top rank in those stats is "absolutely worthless". And I think you'll find Divock Origi probably wins per 90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Need an Arse Tackles per 90 - he'd be top on that one as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 ------------------Sangare------------------- --Ramsay-------------------McGinn-- ---------Buendia----Coutinho------- -------------------David------------------- Noice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, bobzy said: Nope - but you said that being top rank in those stats is "absolutely worthless". And I think you'll find Divock Origi probably wins per 90. Which is why I said sample size has to be decent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: And? Where is the stat for unforced errors, caught in possession or giving the ball away with bad passes? The reasoning behind people criticising him is he is often wasteful with possession which puts us under pressure. McGinn seemed to average about three or four per match at one point this season. Find the stats then? Name a player in the squad who doesn't give the ball away at least once a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, AndyM3000 said: These stats are absolutely worthless, he's played loads more minutes than any other midfielder. Swap Sanson and McGinn's minutes and Sanson would be first for all of them stats as well. Per 90 is the only way to look at stats providing the sample size is decent. Hahaha listen to yourself ffs. If this was a set of stats for cash, or coutinho, or martinez, you would be waxing lyrical about what a player we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, bobzy said: He's definitely inconsistent - most non-elite footballers are... ...but I think a lot of what we see (and read about on here) is confirmation bias. If you look for someone to misplace a pass and then you spot them doing it, there you go. It's a confirmed thing. But you won't be looking at, say, Jacob Ramsey do exactly the same thing because you're predisposed to thinking John McGinn needs to do better. Same thing happens with Ollie Watkins FWIW. Everyone says he has a bad touch, so people look out for it and comment on it in the match thread. All the time. (Edit: I'm not saying they don't have these weaknesses in their game necessarily. Just that it's "more noticed" with these players) If we are being objective then we can see the limitations in those players too. And I don't disagree with the point you have made. Furthermore, with Ramsey still in Rookie category we know he is good yet will improve. We cut him some slack so to speak... In McGinn's case he's an experienced (28 years) player and it is exasperating seeing him misplace simple passes. Perhaps we think an older player should know better? Edited May 20, 2022 by Zhan_Zhuang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Ramsay Neeeighboouurs, everybody needs good neeeighboouurs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said: Hahaha listen to yourself ffs. If this was a set of stats for cash, or coutinho, or martinez, you would be waxing lyrical about what a player we have. Really wouldn't because I understand how stats work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 29 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: Shush, he's shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Hands up he was pretty good yesterday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 33 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: I love John McGinn and I want to be impressed by this but then I remember all the times he’s kicked the easiest ball 5yards to an opponent and it annoys me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoobs Posted May 20, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2022 7 hours ago, mykeyb said: After every match you can come on here and SJM is getting pelters from a large number of fans yet last night on Sky the put up some stats where he was first in every category. I assume it was at the club not in the league but I think is shows that a lot of fans havent got the first clue about football It’s my opinion that forums like this give a voice to the noisy minority. Think the vast majority of Villa fans are behind SJM. It’s the same with all social media. Unless someone has an absolutely brilliant game, people generally post negative points about a player. If you read this read, it looks like Villa fans are trying to chase McGinn out the door but I think the reality is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said: Wtf is a “passing grade”? Is it pass completion rate? If so then call it that pff_fc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 13 hours ago, WallisFrizz said: I love John McGinn and I want to be impressed by this but then I remember all the times he’s kicked the easiest ball 5yards to an opponent and it annoys me. In essence this. McGinn does so much well and then loses all consciousness gifting the ball to the opposition and inviting pressure upon the defence. 11 hours ago, Stoobs said: It’s my opinion that forums like this give a voice to the noisy minority. Think the vast majority of Villa fans are behind SJM. It’s the same with all social media. Unless someone has an absolutely brilliant game, people generally post negative points about a player. If you read this read, it looks like Villa fans are trying to chase McGinn out the door but I think the reality is different. I wouldn't agree and you are being wholly unfair, nobody here is saying get out of Villa. Most of the players are inconsistent and hence Villa are midtable, because we are average. Villa fans want the best, like all fans. To be the best means players will come and go, it's all about Aston Villa and not John McGinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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