John McGinn

[andym]

15 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Apparently his pass completion this season sits at 75.4% - exactly the same as Bruno Fernandes and 0.3% behind Kevin De Bruyne.  Other (good) players who are losing the ball more often because they're playing risky passes.  His "aimless long balls" are completed 59.3% of the time, compared to Fernandes 54% or De Bruyne 53.5%.  For progressive passes (which fbref counts as "completed passes which move the ball towards the opponents' goal by at least 10 yards"), McGinn is 13th in the entire league - again, for comparison Fernandes is 4th and De Bruyne is 19th.

But yeah pal, **** the stats - I'm just a "fanboy". 

Fernandes and De Bruyne play more forward, more of a no.10 type role,  you are obviously going to have lower pass completion in that position because more risky stuff is tried.

McGinn plays deeper; other midfielders in his position have much better pass completion (he's one of the lower '6/8's' in the league). In that position you need it because you are trying to build play and control the ball. Also if you try something risky in that position its much more dangerous if you lose it.

That's the McGinn conundrum, he's got the tools to provide high level attacking play; it's his decision making as to when and where on the pitch to do it that causes the issue.

Last night was much better - sensible and helping keep the ball when we had it deeper, and once we'd worked it up the pitch, then looking for the killer ball.

He's far more effective when he reigns in his 100mph at all times style.

 

 

[Steero113]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

They are though, Man City have a long ball completion percentage of 74% and Liverpools' is 68%, ours by comparison is 55%

As a team yes, fair enough, I am talking about McGinn and comparing him to players who are trying the same attacking balls as him specifically, in this case players like KDB, Gundo etc. 

The team stats are helped that Liverpool and City have arguably the two best keepers in world football for distribution, as well as Trent etc who are just freaks. 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, andym said:

Fernandes and De Bruyne play more forward, more of a no.10 type role,  you are obviously going to have lower pass completion in that position because more risky stuff is tried.

McGinn plays deeper; other midfielders in his position have much better pass completion (he's one of the lower '6/8's' in the league). In that position you need it because you are trying to build play and control the ball. Also if you try something risky in that position its much more dangerous if you lose it.

That's the McGinn conundrum, he's got the tools to provide high level attacking play; it's his decision making as to when and where on the pitch to do it that causes the issue.

Last night was much better - sensible and helping keep the ball when we had it deeper, and once we'd worked it up the pitch, then looking for the killer ball.

He's far more effective when he reigns in his 100mph at all times style.

That's fair - but he's well rounded (not fat lol), no?  Only Christian Norgaard has made more tackles in the middle of the park than McGinn this season; and McGinn is 3rd for overall tackles in the league.

So he's both creative and combative.  If you remove those elements from his game and try and concentrate on him slowing down and keeping the ball, we become a much worse side for it IMO.

[duke313]

13 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

As a team yes, fair enough, I am talking about McGinn and comparing him to players who are trying the same attacking balls as him specifically, in this case players like KDB, Gundo etc. 

The team stats are helped that Liverpool and City have arguably the two best keepers in world football for distribution, as well as Trent etc who are just freaks. 

I'll give you KDB, his is similar % to McGinn, but Gundogan percentage for long balls is 71%, Bernardo Silva is 71% and Rodri is 86%.  They are far more accurate.

[Steero113]

2 minutes ago, duke313 said:

I'll give you KDB, his is similar % to McGinn, but Gundogan percentage for long balls is 71%, Bernardo Silva is 71% and Rodri is 86%.  They are far more accurate.

If we could find a player 80% as good as Rodri, it would totally transform us. 

He is exactly what we need to play alongside McGinn and Ramsey. 

[Sulberto21]

46 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

What an absolute crock of s**t this is. (in my opinion of course )

How do you think Liverscum and Man City create chances? By passing side to side into the goal?

They aren't aimless long balls... they are attempts at unlocking defences. He's basically the only player in the team who tries them.

What a crock of shit this whole post is.

[Steero113]

2 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

What a crock of shit this whole post is.

In your opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

Mate

[duke313]

9 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

If we could find a player 80% as good as Rodri, it would totally transform us. 

He is exactly what we need to play alongside McGinn and Ramsey. 

While not terrible, McGinn's isn't great either at 60%, a lot of wasted passes.  Rodri is elite though, so no shame in being worse than him.  McGinn does attempt the most out of our midfielders, maybe something he could work on in training.

[rodders0223]

Honestly. Last night I'd take a Mcginn that plays forward balls. Percentage balls and high risk passes ahead of a Luiz that had 100 plus passes with 90% plus accuracy and did absolutely nothing with it.

[Steero113]

1 minute ago, duke313 said:

While not terrible, McGinn's isn't great either at 60%, a lot of wasted passes.  Rodri is elite though, so no shame in being worse than him.  McGinn does attempt the most out of our midfielders, maybe something he could work on in training.

Yeah what I am saying is that in order to have a player like McGinn (high energy, combative, has an eye for a defence splitting pass yet not amazing at possession based football) you absolutely require a high quality CDM to balance him out (i.e a Rodri who is a supreme passer). 

This is why I was so keen on Bentancur in Jan. He is exactly what we needed, a metronome who ticks things over and can play possession based football at the base of our midfield.

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

People keep trotting out this **** garbage, but having a 66% pass completion is because McGinn is the only player in our squad who tries to unlock the defence with ambitious passes - for example, the ball to Buendia for his goal.  Most of the time these won't come off, but when they do it's a massive chance for us.

He does the most tackling, he does the most creating and people want him gone because he doesn't play simple passes backwards or sidewards.  **** hell.

There's a hell of a lot wrong with this post. He wastes many good positions/situations trying those (too often just hopeful) lofted balls over the top. He is not our best creator.

[Sulberto21]

58 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It's almost like players fluctuate in form.  Crazy world, eh?

This consistency thing is becoming as infuriating as people referring to pass completion as well.  If he was consistently, week-in, week-out, pulling the top stats that he's averaging over the season in any case (creating the most in our squad, tackling the most, progressing, dribbling etc) he'd be absolutely nowhere near Aston Villa and probably in the running for Ballon D'or.

That’s the thing - when McGinn plays well Villa play well. He’s vital to our results so we need him to be more consistent so this thing about consistency isn’t nonsense. We’ll go up the league!

[El Segundo]

I like McGinn and he showed why tonight.  I think he's unfairly criticised sometimes - for example his possession stats are sometime lower because he is more willing to try the risky forward pass, the so-called "key passes" that will lead to chances.  Buendia gave the ball away loads in the first half of the season for the same reason.

I'd rather that than the robotic sideways and backwards passes of some of those with better stats, but who do little to actually create anything.  

[Steero113]

3 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

That’s the thing - when McGinn plays well Villa play well. He’s vital to our results so we need him to be more consistent so this thing about consistency isn’t nonsense. We’ll go up the league!

He is vital yes. 

Where I agree with you is that because we don't have a balanced midfield he tries the risky pass too often when we play against the better sides. 

This could be down to Gerrard asking him to do that but I feel like his weakness is possession based keep-ball, he's not great at it so he needs at least one (ideally two) players next to him in the side who can carry that burden and let him be free to pick his passes under less pressure. 

At the moment he has Nakamba as his DM against the big sides who is the total opposite and is shit under pressure. Its just not set up right at present for him to show his best qualities. I think it's why SG tries to shoe-horn Douglas Luiz in at DM so often as he's the only player we have who is somewhat comfortable under pressure in possession. 

We'll see what the summer brings, but I can pretty much guarantee SJM starts our first league game next season. The CDM signing is utterly crucial to our progress. 

[Sulberto21]

24 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

In your opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

Mate

*imo. 

[bobzy]

20 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

There's a hell of a lot wrong with this post. He wastes many good positions/situations trying those (too often just hopeful) lofted balls over the top. He is not our best creator.

Sorry, I should have clarified - in regards to central midfield.  Although he's probably our third best creator in any case (behind Buendia and Coutinho).

Edited May 20, 2022 by bobzy

[Sulberto21]

5 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

He is vital yes. 

Where I agree with you is that because we don't have a balanced midfield he tries the risky pass too often when we play against the better sides. 

This could be down to Gerrard asking him to do that but I feel like his weakness is possession based keep-ball, he's not great at it so he needs at least one (ideally two) players next to him in the side who can carry that burden and let him be free to pick his passes under less pressure. 

At the moment he has Nakamba as his DM against the big sides who is the total opposite and is shit under pressure. Its just not set up right at present for him to show his best qualities. I think it's why SG tries to shoe-horn Douglas Luiz in at DM so often as he's the only player we have who is somewhat comfortable under pressure in possession. 

We'll see what the summer brings, but I can pretty much guarantee SJM starts our first league game next season. The CDM signing is utterly crucial to our progress. 

I believe he can do the possession stuff because he’s done it. What my whole argument is is when he mixes it up and is more selective in his searching raking passes he’s much more dangerous because defences can get caught out. 

Yesterday he had an easy square pass to Buendia who had the whole left side open with Digne high but McGinn went for the hard over the top ball. A simple sideways pass opens the whole game up for us. However as we were dominating it didn’t matter because we got the ball back quickly and McGinn was having a motm game. 

2 minutes later similar situation and we got a half chance from it because McGinn played the simple sideways pass which opened the game up because Digne had an open 20 yards and he got a good cross in. 

[bannedfromHandV]

22 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

There's a hell of a lot wrong with this post. He wastes many good positions/situations trying those (too often just hopeful) lofted balls over the top. He is not our best creator.

Like the hopeful ball he lofted over the defence and right on to Buendia’s right foot last night? 

[Steero113]

24 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

There's a hell of a lot wrong with this post. He wastes many good positions/situations trying those (too often just hopeful) lofted balls over the top. He is not our best creator.

Statistically, he's our second best creator behind Emi2.

[Tom13]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Like the hopeful ball he lofted over the defence and right on to Buendia’s right foot last night? 

Obviously not. That wasn't hopeful, he actually picked someone out with purpose.