sne Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Israel have bombed a couple buildings next to the Iranian embassy in Damascus Syria killing some general and other people. Israel claiming he was meeting people from Palestinian jihad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, Chindie said: A lot of Israelis need their day in the Hague. So do a lot of Russians. Zero chance either ever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 1 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1 5 minutes ago, villa89 said: So do a lot of Russians. Zero chance either ever happens. Oh absolutely. For different reasons of course, but definitely not. Russians as Russia is too big to have any face justice, and Israelis because they're on 'our' side so won't face any consequences for crimes against humanity. Still won't change the fact that justice should see them in a dock thankful the Hague can't sentence them to swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 4 hours ago, chrisp65 said: We’ll also have to remember it’s no defence to say I was just carrying out orders. I’m intrigued in the general sense and not to do with Israel or Gaza. If I am ordered to kill or torture someone with the consequence of not carrying out the order being my own death… and I carry out the order, can I use that as a defence for my actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 23 minutes ago, ender4 said: I’m intrigued in the general sense and not to do with Israel or Gaza. If I am ordered to kill or torture someone with the consequence of not carrying out the order being my own death… and I carry out the order, can I use that as a defence for my actions? I genuinely don’t know. Specific to this conflict, I doubt the IDF threaten to execute IDF personnel that refuse to murder mothers and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Israel have just massacred foreign aid workers including one British citizen. Wonder if it will get any press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 1 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1 They are a rogue state that, were they not on 'our' side, would be getting high velocity democracy from a few thousand feet until they got in line. The regularity at which they kill aid workers and attack civilian infrastructure and targets makes a mockery of everyone. Despicable nation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 The aid vehicles were clearly marked, had coordinated their route with the IDF, but were hit as they left a food warehouse. None of this was accidental. There are religious zealots in charge of Israel and those that don't believe their distorted and cruel vision, are targets, Palestinian, Polish, Australian, it doesn't matter. You have to worry for Israel, so much damage has been caused and so much more damage will inevitably come in a reaction of some shape or form against Israel, over decades. Hamas couldn't have hoped for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 2 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2 Looks like Israel has got what it wanted from killing some more aid workers - at least 2 more organisations ceasing work in Gaza, as it's too dangerous. Why is it too dangerous? Israel keeps killing them, even when they're supposedly working with Israeli forces to advise where they are and who they are. May as well drive around with a big target on vehicles. Israel has also decided to bomb the Iranian consulate in Syria, killing some high ranking military officials. The current line seems to be that this is ok as they didn't target the embassy itself. Just the building next door, that was used by the embassy and it's officials. Either way it seems stupidly reckless in the current climate. But then it's Israel and they don't give a ****, and are allowed to not give a **** with impunity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 19 hours ago, chrisp65 said: We’ll also have to remember it’s no defence to say I was just carrying out orders. it’s not just Netanyahu that is a war criminal, the IDF soldiers that have murdered tens of thousands also need to be hunted down, those behind 7th October also need to be hunted down. This is actually a common misconception - it is a defence, just not one that will always get you off the hook like "I didn't do it" or "that's not a war crime". There's some situations where it's a complete defence. Like if a pilot is given a mission to bomb a military target that turns out to be civilian target, it's a valid defence to say "I was given orders and could not have known they would result in a war crime". Similarly, while it's a war crime to cut off food to Gaza, individual border guards are probably not committing war crimes when turning back individual aid trucks. As for @ender4's question - that sort of thing comes up with child soldiers in African conflicts, and it's something that needs to be taken into consideration but doesn't necessarily mean you won't be held responsible. I think it's just handled on a case-by-case basis because the morality is so murky. At the end of the day, even at Nuremburg only the high-ranking Nazis were executed or given life sentences. Low-ranking SS troops who were working at the death camps and fully complicit in mass murder generally just got a few years in prison (3-4 years). It's certainly debatable how much say they'd have had in their posting, and what they could have done to stop events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: This is actually a common misconception - it is a defence, just not one that will always get you off the hook like "I didn't do it" or "that's not a war crime". There's some situations where it's a complete defence. Like if a pilot is given a mission to bomb a military target that turns out to be civilian target, it's a valid defence to say "I was given orders and could not have known they would result in a war crime". Similarly, while it's a war crime to cut off food to Gaza, individual border guards are probably not committing war crimes when turning back individual aid trucks. As for @ender4's question - that sort of thing comes up with child soldiers in African conflicts, and it's something that needs to be taken into consideration but doesn't necessarily mean you won't be held responsible. I think it's just handled on a case-by-case basis because the morality is so murky. At the end of the day, even at Nuremburg only the high-ranking Nazis were executed or given life sentences. Low-ranking SS troops who were working at the death camps and fully complicit in mass murder generally just got a few years in prison (3-4 years). It's certainly debatable how much say they'd have had in their posting, and what they could have done to stop events. Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting every border guard and payroll clerk be tried at The Hague. It was my second line, the psychos murdering people in cold blood on bus stops, the snipers using a wounded kid as bait to shoot at anyone attempting to help, the bulldozer driver flattening lines of bodies with hands and feet tied. We’ve all seen enough videos over the last 6 or 7 months, many by the perpetrators themselves, to know there are cold blooded murders happening on a daily basis. Those kinda guys, they can’t just use following orders as a get out of jail free card. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I get the impression most Israeli soldiers are enjoying taking genocidal orders 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting every border guard and payroll clerk be tried at The Hague. It was my second line, the psychos murdering people in cold blood on bus stops, the snipers using a wounded kid as bait to shoot at anyone attempting to help, the bulldozer driver flattening lines of bodies with hands and feet tied. We’ve all seen enough videos over the last 6 or 7 months, many by the perpetrators themselves, to know there are cold blooded murders happening on a daily basis. Those kinda guys, they can’t just use following orders as a get out of jail free card. Yeah, agreed. There's plenty of them that need to be on trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 38 minutes ago, Chindie said: Looks like Israel has got what it wanted from killing some more aid workers - at least 2 more organisations ceasing work in Gaza, as it's too dangerous. Why is it too dangerous? Israel keeps killing them, even when they're supposedly working with Israeli forces to advise where they are and who they are. May as well drive around with a big target on vehicles. Israel has also decided to bomb the Iranian consulate in Syria, killing some high ranking military officials. The current line seems to be that this is ok as they didn't target the embassy itself. Just the building next door, that was used by the embassy and it's officials. Either way it seems stupidly reckless in the current climate. But then it's Israel and they don't give a ****, and are allowed to not give a **** with impunity. Certainly feels this way. How do you ensure aid doesn't get to the civilians you're openly slaughtering? Kill the aid givers, too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 2 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2 5 hours ago, Jareth said: The aid vehicles were clearly marked, had coordinated their route with the IDF, but were hit as they left a food warehouse. None of this was accidental. There are religious zealots in charge of Israel and those that don't believe their distorted and cruel vision, are targets, Palestinian, Polish, Australian, it doesn't matter. You have to worry for Israel, so much damage has been caused and so much more damage will inevitably come in a reaction of some shape or form against Israel, over decades. Hamas couldn't have hoped for more. Even if it the aid truck was "accidentally" hit, it wasn't an accidental strike. Putin and Southgate levels of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 14 hours ago, omariqy said: Israel have just massacred foreign aid workers including one British citizen. Wonder if it will get any press A Polish one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 British aid workers now confirmed killed. Will the US and UK go from supporting Isreal, to suggesting the cooling off on the murders to attacking them (verbally initially)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 2 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2 Israel could blow up chunks of London and Washington and still would be getting shipments of missiles and rifles from the very same governments. 3 aid workers might stir someone to consider saying something mildly critical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Genie said: 3 British aid workers now confirmed killed. Will the US and UK go from supporting Isreal, to suggesting the cooling off on the murders to attacking them (verbally initially)? More chance of Villa winning the league. Edited April 2 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Leaders of Israel are becoming the very things they fear most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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