magnkarl Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 This, along with pretty much every conflict in the ME recently is a dumpster fire of historic magnitudes. The West talks about peace but arms Israel to the teeth, the Arab league/Iran talks about peace but arms Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood and PIJ to the teeth. Everyone does everything bar helping the civilians in Gaza who are used as pawns by some serious evil idiots to build hate against some other evil idiots. There isn't a future for anyone in Gaza\WB\Israel unless someone can put Israel's right wing backers and the militant Palestinian cause back in its box. Start with Iran and Lebanon, proceed with Likud, and then look closely at why Egypt is dragging its feet with letting people out and in to Gaza. The Saudis have a big role to play, the sooner they can calm relations to Israel's moderates the faster this will end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Israel need to put their right-wingers back in their box themselves, tbh. They're about to pass some crazy bill that's cutting the welfare state to pay for the war, and extending the length of conscription, while also increasing funding for the ultra-orthodox Jews to not work and make them officially exempt from military service. One of the more moderate members of the war cabinet went to Washington a couple of days ago and was apparently astonished at just how pissed everyone in the White House was with Israel, too. At what point do they collapse the coalition and force new elections? Even if you're a patriotic Israeli you should be able to see that many of the policies being pursued at the moment aren't good for Israel in the long term (or even really in the short term). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Lord Snooty confirmed the other day that our arms sales to Israel were so comparatively small it wasn’t worth stopping them. Even though we are very very close to becoming concerned about all the dead children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 19 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: Israel need to put their right-wingers back in their box themselves, tbh. They're about to pass some crazy bill that's cutting the welfare state to pay for the war, and extending the length of conscription, while also increasing funding for the ultra-orthodox Jews to not work and make them officially exempt from military service. One of the more moderate members of the war cabinet went to Washington a couple of days ago and was apparently astonished at just how pissed everyone in the White House was with Israel, too. At what point do they collapse the coalition and force new elections? Even if you're a patriotic Israeli you should be able to see that many of the policies being pursued at the moment aren't good for Israel in the long term (or even really in the short term). So who puts the misery that Likud thrives on back in its box? I.e Iran, the Muslim brotherhood and perennial attacks on Israel since it’s re-inception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Panto_Villan Posted March 8 Popular Post Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: So who puts the misery that Likud thrives on back in its box? I.e Iran, the Muslim brotherhood and perennial attacks on Israel since its re-inception? The Israeli electorate is perfectly capable of electing a more moderate government without any help from Iran or external factors. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 What's a re-inception BTW? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 8 Moderator Share Posted March 8 34 minutes ago, omariqy said: What's a re-inception BTW? Presumably referring to the ancient kingdom of Israel (and possibly the ancient kingdom of Judah) vs the modern Israel. Hence the re-inception of Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Probably about as representative as Abu Hamza 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Sweden and Canada resuming funding of UNRWA - glad to see it. Just goes to show what theatre that all was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Quote Tens of thousands of people marched through central London on Saturday reiterating calls for a ceasefire in Gaza https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/09/tens-of-thousands-of-pro-palestine-protesters-march-through-london Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 23 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: The Israeli electorate is perfectly capable of electing a more moderate government without any help from Iran or external factors. Which I’m sure they will. I just don’t see how anything outside Israel changes, its neighbours have a habit of invading it every 7 or so years on a Jewish holiday of some sort. Likud is there for a reason, just like Hamas is. Unless we deal with the factors that brought us where we are it’s entirely blue-eyed to put this down to the Israeli electorate. Edited March 9 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Which I’m sure they will. How can you be sure given what’s happened already and the lack of protest compared to the protest against reforms of the judiciary oversight pre October? I don’t see a country wanting to change course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: How can you be sure given what’s happened already and the lack of protest compared to the protest against reforms of the judiciary oversight pre October? I don’t see a country wanting to change course. War time legislation, just like in most countries, prohibit people from large protests. Add to it that most of the young people that protested against Benny before this war are now conscripted and must follow every rule of an enlisted individual (no political protest, no open political support etc) I might be naive, but I think Benny was toast the day Hamas got through so easily and Benny decided to play politics with the hostages rather than come to an agreement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Children, like your own, have died, because they have been denied food by Israel. When is this going to be understood? Edited March 10 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 hours ago, Jareth said: Children, like your own Can't see it being a good morning. MrsVM is not going to be happy I kept their existence from her all these years. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 10 Moderator Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, Jareth said: Children, like your own, have died, because they have been denied food by Israel. When is this going to be understood? You seem to think people don’t understand, it’s more that they don’t care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 14 hours ago, magnkarl said: Which I’m sure they will. I just don’t see how anything outside Israel changes, its neighbours have a habit of invading it every 7 or so years on a Jewish holiday of some sort. Likud is there for a reason, just like Hamas is. Unless we deal with the factors that brought us where we are it’s entirely blue-eyed to put this down to the Israeli electorate. Nah, I don’t believe that. The Israelis are buying a fantasy if they think they can vote for a government that wants to settle Palestinian land, actively sabotage a two-state solution, empower the ultra-orthodox minority and pursue maximalist war goals. There’s no long-term way any of that works out in Israel’s favour. They’re getting a preview of how it’s going to play out right now, and thankfully it looks like people have realised it’s a bad idea. A more sensible government would be better able to protect Israel from external threats, and would be much less likely to antagonise the allies Israel needs to survive. And perhaps finish the reconciliation with the Arab states that was on the table before the attack. This war could have been conducted very differently if it wasn’t being carried out as political theatre. Electing Netanyahu is entirely on Israel, just as electing Trump was on America and Brexit was on us. You can’t blame every act of self-destruction on external factors; sometimes people just vote for bad ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, bickster said: You seem to think people don’t understand, it’s more that they don’t care They probably mostly do care in a "oh how sad, someone should do something" way. But short of being a bit sad and angry about it, there isn't really much that anyone actually can do. Edited March 10 by ml1dch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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