chrisp65 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 10 hours ago, Seat68 said: Purely for information as I don't have a great deal of knowledge about this conflict, certainly not enough to contribute to this thread but EpiPen is manufactured by an Israeli company I believe. A quick google and it appears Lloyds Pharmacy can already offer two alternatives to EpiPen. I think the medicines thing was more an example of a worry about trade and GDP figures than an actual risk to life worry about specific medicines, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 12 Moderator Share Posted March 12 22 hours ago, magnkarl said: Personally I think there's very little evidence to show that PA\Fatah, PLO or whatever comes after Hamas in Gaza is capable of peaceful coexistence with Israel. Sorry to pick out a single line here - but do you think there's likely to be a 'next' Gazan government? It seems to me that we're heading towards a former-Gaza governed from the same place as the rest of Israel - I think we're too far along this path now for Netanyahu to leave anything that will create a future generation that are a threat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 31 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Sorry to pick out a single line here - but do you think there's likely to be a 'next' Gazan government? It seems to me that we're heading towards a former-Gaza governed from the same place as the rest of Israel - I think we're too far along this path now for Netanyahu to leave anything that will create a future generation that are a threat. Not sure. It took 4 years to establish a government in West-Germany after WW2. I think we're looking at some sort of international agreement for a period where there needs to be other people than Israel and PA\Fatah that goes in and administers psychological aid, de-radicalisation and helps lift the general prosperity of the average citizen rather than whoever is in charge. West-Germany is pretty much the only blueprint on a similar situation where it's turned into a success after the country was similarly ravaged and bombed to bits and ruled by extremism. Gaza had a pretty solid economy before Israel left in 2005 with greenhouses and produce being their main income before Hamas sabotaged all of that when they took over. Either way I think both Israel and PA needs to be kept away from the rebuild. They're both totally inept at caring for and about the population of Gaza. One is chomping at the bit to destroy it and take over and the other is one of the most corrupt governments in the world with a track record of handling vast amounts of aid in the worst possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 12 Moderator Share Posted March 12 I think we're too far down the path for (at least Netanyahu's) Israel to leave that land as anything but Israel at the end of this. I think the only ending that makes sense for Israel having come this far is no Gaza, not a better administered Gaza. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 33 minutes ago, sne said: Hmmm, is that true? The 200,000 Yemeni's killed - surely more than 12,000 were children? The Chinese Uyghurs killed - 9 million missing, over 1 million in camps. Surely over 12,000 of the millions are children? Ukraine? That's just quick 3 from the top of my head. I haven't even thought about civil/tribal wars in Africa which i'm sure there are many. EDIT - Not to say people dying in Gaza isn't bad, but if they want to compare... Edited March 13 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13 Moderator Share Posted March 13 2 minutes ago, ender4 said: Hmmm, is that true? The 200,000 Yemeni's killed - surely more than 12,000 were children? The Chinese Uyghurs killed - 9 million missing, over 1 million in camps. Surely over 12,000 of the millions are children? Ukraine? That's just quick 3 from the top of my head. I haven't even thought about civil/tribal wars in Africa which i'm sure there are many. EDIT - Not to say people dying in Gaza isn't bad, but if they want to compare... Its also a particularly high in Gaza due to the median age of the population being 18 compared to 28 as a worldwide average (one of the youngest populations on the planet). The casualty rate of children is always going to be high when half the population is a child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 I’d guess it’s also high in Palestine as they were kettled in to densely populated safe zones and then bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Its also a particularly high in Gaza due to the median age of the population being 18 compared to 28 as a worldwide average (one of the youngest populations on the planet). The casualty rate of children is always going to be high when half the population is a child Good point. I guess in other wars there are less children and more adults dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 15 minutes ago, ender4 said: Hmmm, is that true? The 200,000 Yemeni's killed - surely more than 12,000 were children? The Chinese Uyghurs killed - 9 million missing, over 1 million in camps. Surely over 12,000 of the millions are children? Ukraine? That's just quick 3 from the top of my head. I haven't even thought about civil/tribal wars in Africa which i'm sure there are many. EDIT - Not to say people dying in Gaza isn't bad, but if they want to compare... I imagine maybe the Uyghurs genocide isn't classed as a conflict in this example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 13 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13 Attacked a UNRWA facility again. This time one of the few food distribution centres thats still operating. **** Israel, utterly despicable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 13 Moderator Share Posted March 13 I look forward to the reaction when Israel bomb the port that the US is building for aid. Using US supplied bombs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 15 hours ago, ender4 said: Hmmm, is that true? The 200,000 Yemeni's killed - surely more than 12,000 were children? The Chinese Uyghurs killed - 9 million missing, over 1 million in camps. Surely over 12,000 of the millions are children? Ukraine? That's just quick 3 from the top of my head. I haven't even thought about civil/tribal wars in Africa which i'm sure there are many. EDIT - Not to say people dying in Gaza isn't bad, but if they want to compare... The UN itself says the number killed in Ukraine is likely a lot higher than what they report mainly in Russian controlled areas. There's likely around 5000 dead kids in Mariupol alone where the town was surrounded and people couldn't escape and then totally flattened with artillery, bombs and thermobaric rockets. The graveyards spotted around Mariupol via satellite in the last year alone all but confirm that very few people survived. There's more than 12000 dead children in Yemen, add in Russia's horrible bombardment of Aleppo and Syria and the graph wouldn't look like this. The UN shouldn't be comparing like this, they know a whole lot better. This just makes them look like some conflicts matter more than others to them. Kids dying doesn't need to be compared like this, it's awful full stop. It's not more awful in Gaza than it is everywhere else. But the UNRWA has a very particular agenda being the only agency within the UN that only supports children of one particular conflict, with all the repercussions that come with that, bad sources, mishandling of aid and whatnot. My donations for Gaza have gone to DWB for this very reason. Edited March 14 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Months and months of horror. Imagine the fall - out in a country whose health system has almost no ability to treat the psychological aspects of trauma, just thousands of desperate people left alone with their torment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Curious how the “sides” are weighing up here? Caught the back end of a news bulletin around increasing support for “Jewish settlements” in Gaza. Mentioned around 32k Palestinians dead since the Hamas attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Finally a UN vote for a ceasefire has passed. Not perfect of course but these shits running Israel are on borrowed time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 21 minutes ago, Jareth said: Finally a UN vote for a ceasefire has passed. Not perfect of course but these shits running Israel are on borrowed time. Someone will throw a stone in the wrong direction and then it will all engines go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, sne said: Someone will throw a stone in the wrong direction and then it will all engines go again. I have to cling on to this, I think it's quite huge that the US are saying they won't support Israel unconditionally. Of course a few thousand murders are ok by the yanks, but for that country to say enough is a turning point IMHO. And my god we have all realised just how evil Israel are, about time this is reflected by elected bodies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: I have to cling on to this, I think it's quite huge that the US are saying they won't support Israel unconditionally. Of course a few thousand murders are ok by the yanks, but for that country to say enough is a turning point IMHO. And my god we have all realised just how evil Israel are, about time this is reflected by elected bodies. Here's hoping 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just so completely despicable. I would like to know what's behind this mindset, my assumption is that it's supremacy, that there is an idea that God has designated some importance over all other people. Religions should not be allowed to run nuclear armed countries. Quote Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza. Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately. "I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand". She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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