bickster Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 Just now, Davkaus said: I'm not familiar with the Manchester Arena, but even if they deal with that area, surely that's just moving the thread along a few dozen feet to the nearest pedestrian area outside? Most venues are only going to have one or two major routes out. Think of Villa Park...they search people's bags on entrance top the stadium, but even if they did it at the perimeter of the ground, the amount of damage a bomb could do outside the holte pub, or the underpass could be catastrophic, and there's not much that can be done to protect against it. It doesn't even need to be venues...Some word removed with a bomb walking in to Tesco on a Saturday afternoon could kill dozens. Supermarkets aren't going to start searching the bags of everyone that goes in. Shopping centres, just random high streets...If someone has the means and motivation to make a bomb, they're going to find a place to use it. Point being that damage is often much more devastating in a confined space With the Man Arena, it depends which side you come out. Come out on the main road, you're straight into a busy wide road. Come out the other side and... Manchester's very busy, second station Victoria. In terms of isolation the venue is a nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 The O2 is similar with all traffic leaving into the foyer with all the restaurants etc. No bag checks until the actual arena doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: Thou shalt not kill for a start. Just take an eye for an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: Thou shalt not kill for a start. The early Christian 'soldier saints' (like our George) only got sainted when they gave up soldiering and killing. Only in the late 11th Century, Pope Urban II suddenly decreed that you could get into heaven by killing as many Muslims as possible. The crusaders who took Jerusalem in 1099 slaughtered the inhabitants (of all faiths) pretty much indiscriminately. Ironically, when Saladin re-took it in 1187, he treated the inhabitants (of all faiths) with ostentatious magnanimity. Both 'religions of peace', both very nasty when it suits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 Another arrest in connection with the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ariana grande has offered to pay for all the victims funerals. What a gesture. Yep, a very nice gesture. While our best wishes rightly go to those effected and their families, i think we must spare a thought for Ariana. She is a young lass trying to entertain all these kids and this happens. The poor mare must be heartbroken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, av1 said: Yep, a very nice gesture. While our best wishes rightly go to those effected and their families, i think we must spare a thought for Ariana. She is a young lass trying to entertain all these kids and this happens. The poor mare must be heartbroken. I couldn't even imagine the thoughts going through her head right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Daweii said: I couldn't even imagine the thoughts going through her head right now. She's being bullied all over right wing twitter and Facebook. https://m.facebook.com/PatriotsForAmericaUSA/photos/a.1636611373317387.1073741829.1636057823372742/1775603999418123/?type=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I know that. Intelligence leaking is rarely good for the organisations that need it, and sometimes can be very bad - hence the correct uproar of Trump leaking Israeli info to Russia. That potentially kills people. I don't think that excludes arse covering though. It's not a good look when someone you were told was dangerous blows up kids. Mistakes get made, but that has consequences. I'd want to keep that quiet in those circumstances, if nothing else to control reactions. I don't know anything about the group so I'll bow to greater knowledge. It'll be interesting to see if the father was considered a threat or not, for whatever reason. If it was purely arse covering, "we" wouldn't have shared that bit of intel with the US. it would have been omitted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, bickster said: This bit reminded me of a thought I had last night. Technically he didn't actually walk into the gig He was in the public concourse outside the actual arena. I don't see how the Manchester Arena can continue in its present configuration. There's always been security at gigs going back further than either of us can remember but it happens at the point of entry to the event and logically it has to. I'm not sure if the Manchester Arena is unique in having an area like that, which is effectively a public thoroughfare but there can't be many. It's pretty hard to isolate the event punters from the general public there and it's now an obvious easy, maximum impact contained space in which to detonate a device. Obvious solution there is to close the public thoroughfare if that is possible That would prevent nothing of consequence, though, would it? With a 20,000 odd people venue, including the MEN /Nynex /whatever it's called, there will be 1000s of people outside at the end of the gig/event. I imagine you're right and they will review and change a few thing, but realistically anywhere crowds gather in large number...vulnerable, sadly. [edit - hadn't see this page when I typed that] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, blandy said: If it was purely arse covering, "we" wouldn't have shared that bit of intel with the US. it would have been omitted. I don't think it's purely arse covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Chindie said: I don't think it's purely arse covering. No I understand that. I don't think any of it is arse covering. My bad wording. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Ariana grande has offered to pay for all the victims funerals. What a gesture. Fantastic gesture from a lovely girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, blandy said: No I understand that. I don't think any of it is arse covering. My bad wording. Sorry. I think there's an element of it in there. But fair enough. I'll be astounded if something isn't made of the 'politics' of this. Policing, intelligence services... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hearing second hand from someone who was there, they are saying the bomber was challenged by security as he was trying to get further into the venue to where it was busier and due to being challenged, he then blew himself up. The point being that it could have been even more devastating, if that is possible to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 37 minutes ago, Keyblade said: She's being bullied all over right wing twitter and Facebook. https://m.facebook.com/PatriotsForAmericaUSA/photos/a.1636611373317387.1073741829.1636057823372742/1775603999418123/?type=3 Disgusting vermin. In a time that the world comes together you get garbage like that. Ariana you are always welcome to the UK. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Disgusting vermin. In a time that the world comes together you get garbage like that. Ariana you are always welcome to the UK. She's more than welcome at my house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, av1 said: Yep, a very nice gesture. While our best wishes rightly go to those effected and their families, i think we must spare a thought for Ariana. She is a young lass trying to entertain all these kids and this happens. The poor mare must be heartbroken. Agreed. She must be devastated. I really do feel for her. This picture choked me up... Ariana with her superfan, Georgina Callender, who was sadly one of the victims on Monday night. Going to see your idol and then never making it home. Heartbreaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, bickster said: This bit reminded me of a thought I had last night. Technically he didn't actually walk into the gig He was in the public concourse outside the actual arena. I don't see how the Manchester Arena can continue in its present configuration. There's always been security at gigs going back further than either of us can remember but it happens at the point of entry to the event and logically it has to. I'm not sure if the Manchester Arena is unique in having an area like that, which is effectively a public thoroughfare but there can't be many. It's pretty hard to isolate the event punters from the general public there and it's now an obvious easy, maximum impact contained space in which to detonate a device. Obvious solution there is to close the public thoroughfare if that is possible Would it really make that much difference? He could just as easily have walked into Manchester Victoria on a Friday at 6pm and killed 20 people, if not more. A suicide bomber walking down to the tram stop outside the Arndale on a Saturday would get just as many people. You can't stop crowds by changing where people congregate, you just move them elsewhere. I've been in the Trafford Centre when you've hardly been able to walk there have been so many people crammed in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Risso said: Would it really make that much difference? He could just as easily have walked into Manchester Victoria on a Friday at 6pm and killed 20 people, if not more. A suicide bomber walking down to the tram stop outside the Arndale on a Saturday would get just as many people. You can't stop crowds by changing where people congregate, you just move them elsewhere. I've been in the Trafford Centre when you've hardly been able to walk there have been so many people crammed in. The German Market in Brum at Xmas always worries me. Its so densely packed, sometimes you can barely move. Same for New Street station at 5pm or the Bullring during sales. It can only be a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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