Steve Bruce

[terrytini]

What on earth has previous years/managers got to do with it !!

Apart from anything else we were in the Premier League then, we now have the costliest side ever in the Championship !,

We don't score enough goals under Bruce to get promoted. That has to change, and IMO that's down to him.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

its funny this old game of football... we all see it different.

I have to admit, I said exactly the same watching the game......"He should have come on earlier"......so should Green and Onomah.

I did not want Chris Samba playing centre forward full stop ....peg in the ground.....and disappointed it will be a plan for the future.

The fact that we was conceding ground at a rapid rate and was liable to concede again.....I think it was all he could do and to some degree is started to work we gained ground as unsightly as it was.

my personal argument is ....We should have a specialist player on the books to do that job and we haven't, whether that has something to do with Kodjia, I don't know.

Thing is, it should have not even gotten to that point.

If he had been proactive as a pose to reactive, I feel we would all be having a different conversation.

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Terry I think that first half was as good a half as any we have seen under Bruce. Up there with the first half against Preston at home last season for me. 

Selection wise I don't think it was negative given his options. A front 3 and Lansbury pushed well forwards with Whelan and Bacuna sitting. Had Grelaish been fit I think we'd have seen him in for Bacuna and playing behind Hogan with Lansbury deeper. Had Kodja been fit he would have started ahead of Gabby. You could make an argument that Hourihane should have started instead of Bacuna and played behind Hogan and I'd personally have been happier with that but that is not a major issue for me.

We couldn't have started the game much better and more on the front foot. We instantly pushed them back and could/should have been 2 up in first 7 mins. First half overall we were very good. Second half we didn't start with anything like the same intensity. I don't though imagine for a second Bruce said take your foot off the gas. I am sure he asked for more of the same. We also have to accept there was another team involved here and I am sure their manager ripped them a new one at half time, made them aware the game could already have been out of sight/lost for them and they did come out pumped up for the second half. My biggest criticism of Bruce is that in terms of substitutions he didn't react quick enough as the first thing I said when they scored is that it was coming. When he did react he made some decent calls and we regained a decent grip on the game and finished pretty strongly.

I don't think we are far away. I think in terms of personnel we are looking better than last season and I think based on a small sample of one game we gave our best half under Bruce. Two things went wrong, firstly we didn't put the game out of sight when we were dominant and when Hull upped their game the players/the manager didn't react quick enough. They aren't major deficiencies for me though.

This has been a common thing under Bruce and it's cost us. I think it's a major deficiency  

[terrytini]

But as you say, Mark, we played a half like that against Preston ages ago. Same result effectively.

I think 2 sitting IS defensive, especially at Home for a side wanting to get 2 points a game and virtually double their goal tally. Ok, you don't. But at the very least there's an argument either way, and which side has he always come down on ?

I see a lot made of making chances.

Well I would hope we would ! I don't know a side in this League that doesn't !

But the end result was just one goal - again.

And all last year I read ' he doesn't instruct them to sit off' ......well either he dies, or he has no authority, because it happened, for the - what - 35/35 time !?

Even re-reading that I'm not sure where the significant improvemts are that you can see.

I certainly wouldn't class creating some chances as a significant improvement.  Yes we have a couple of better players. But if anything that makes it worse ! Better players, same outcomes, same causes. 

I'd love nothing more than to share your optimism but unless he changes his approach I think we, and he, are going to have an unhappy time.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by terrytini

[markavfc40]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Thing is, it should have not even gotten to that point.

If he had been proactive as a pose to reactive, I feel we would all be having a different conversation.

I think that is a fair criticism. The goal was coming for them and it was no surprise. Had he have made the changes 10 minutes earlier we could have regained control and the goal doesn't come for them. Hopefully a lesson learned.

[markavfc40]

12 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I think 2 sitting IS defensive, especially at Home for a side wanting to get 2 points a game and virtually double their goal tally. Ok, you don't. But at the very least there's an argument either way, and which side has he always come down on ?

For pretty much 45 minutes it worked though and we had control of the game and created 3 or 4 very good chances. I think you need a solid base to allow the others the freedom and it certainly didn't stifle us going forward in first half. You also have to take into account Hull are not a bad side.

For me it wasn't the formation that cost us it was a combination of us not coming out with the same intensity in the second half, Hull having almost certainly having had a rocket up their arses at half time coming out fired up and then the manager not making changes to help us regain control.

Bottom line is that it was one game this season. A game overall for me that we got the least we deserved from, a game where, again for me, we saw our best 45 mins under Bruce. There were some positives, some negatives but it is far too soon to be drawing anything like conclusions. Let's see what the next 3 or 4 games bring.

Edited August 7, 2017 by markavfc40

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I know what caused it Dave.....but we are talking about one of THE best managers.

It was a factor, it happens.

look at the principle, it doesn't always work out......did it work for Ron at Blues?

 

Well I could have a good dig at comparing Ron Saunders with our current manager, but I know that wasn't your intention TRO and you'd accuse me, with some justification, of being a bit of a rapscallion . But you do make a good point, in that some managers, even very good ones don't always click at some clubs. Even Morhinio managed to get it all wrong at Chelsea the season before last. I'm not denying that Bruce has been a good manager in the past and perhaps he might be a good manager again, but the evidence is stacking up that it's just not working for him here.

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

For pretty much 45 minutes it worked though and we had control of the game and created 3 or 4 very good chances. I think you need a solid base to allow the others the freedom and it certainly didn't stifle us going forward in first half. You also have to take into account Hull are not a bad side.

For me it wasn't the formation that cost us it was a combination of us not coming out with the same intensity in the second half, Hull having almost certainly having had a rocket up their arses at half time coming out fired up and then the manager not making changes to help us regain control.

Bottom line is that it was one game this season. A game overall for me that we got the least we deserved from, a game where, again for me, we saw our best 45 mins under Bruce. There were some positives, some negatives but it is far too soon to be drawing anything like conclusions. Let's see what the next 3 or 4 games bring before we do start drawing anything like conclusions.

Well football is about opinions so fair enough probably done our bit..... for me there is no such thing as something 'working for 45 minutes' really. If you don't win, what you did didn't work.

I do agree a solid base is essential, which is why I can just about see a need for 1 DM on some occasions. Not 2. Ever. Not in this League and with our poor scoring record.

As for whether Hull are a good or bad side, I don't know, they've just been relegated and had a lot of changes - too early to say.

2nd and 3rd paragraphs are just variations on what we all said after many games last year, as I say, I see no significant change, and, so far, neither does the record books.

I hope like hell next time we discuss a game I can say " that's more like it" or some such. Not this time.

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Well football is about opinions so fair enough probably done our bit..... for me there is no such thing as something 'working for 45 minutes' really. If you don't win, what you did didn't work

Like you say mate it is all about opinions. I got to be honest I came into this season as someone who is happy that Bruce remained as our manager, thinks he has done very well in the transfer window, more so given the fact he has had to turn a profit, and thinks he knows what it takes to get us out of this division and will get us playing in a manner that means we will. For now that is how I am going into games judging the manager. Could that mean I am cutting him a bit of slack? quite possibly. I'd like to think it didn't totally blind me to the performance though which overall I think was decent and would have been very good had we have taken one or two more of the very good chances we had and kept our foot on the gas for the 25 mins of the second half where we sat back.

I also want to see an improvement in the coming games as we all do. Maybe where some of us differ is that we don't think it will take much to see that improvement and think the manager is capable of ensuring it happens. Time will tell.

Edited August 8, 2017 by markavfc40

[TRO]

46 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

For pretty much 45 minutes it worked though and we had control of the game and created 3 or 4 very good chances. I think you need a solid base to allow the others the freedom and it certainly didn't stifle us going forward in first half. You also have to take into account Hull are not a bad side.

For me it wasn't the formation that cost us it was a combination of us not coming out with the same intensity in the second half, Hull having almost certainly having had a rocket up their arses at half time coming out fired up and then the manager not making changes to help us regain control.

Bottom line is that it was one game this season. A game overall for me that we got the least we deserved from, a game where, again for me, we saw our best 45 mins under Bruce. There were some positives, some negatives but it is far too soon to be drawing anything like conclusions. Let's see what the next 3 or 4 games bring.

I agree.....and Hull are a competitive outfit.

formations are one thing and we all have opinions of line up......but once they are picked and cross that white line.....they have to compete......some of ours didn't in the second half.

[srsmithusa]

The first 15-20 minutes against Hull were, by some distance, the best we have seen in quite some time. Then the game changed.  Posters at the ground say  that SB was telling us to drop deeper.  If so, shockingly poor decision and horribly negative.  It's almost inconceivable for a manager to do that.  I have no problem chasing the win at the end.  Even putting Samba up front. But take off ANYBODY but the forward to make room.  These are ridiculous errors for an experienced manager.  I'm frankly baffled for an explanation.  

[TRO]

51 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well football is about opinions so fair enough probably done our bit..... for me there is no such thing as something 'working for 45 minutes' really. If you don't win, what you did didn't work.

I do agree a solid base is essential, which is why I can just about see a need for 1 DM on some occasions. Not 2. Ever. Not in this League and with our poor scoring record.

As for whether Hull are a good or bad side, I don't know, they've just been relegated and had a lot of changes - too early to say.

2nd and 3rd paragraphs are just variations on what we all said after many games last year, as I say, I see no significant change, and, so far, neither does the record books.

I hope like hell next time we discuss a game I can say " that's more like it" or some such. Not this time.

Terry 

Whether a player is a defensive midfielder or an attacking midfielder there are fundamental things on a pitch you must do.....(in that second half we didn't do it).....(and in most games when we lose the initiative it means we just stop competing)

• tackling
• closing down
• generally competing for the ball
• competing for aerial ball( we lost nearly every one in the second half)

I accept that the buck stops with the manager.....If you want to blame Steve Bruce for :

• signing the wrong players
• not getting the best out of them

ultimately I have to accept that.....but I seen with my own eyes,  some players just not doing it......i was screaming from my seat to get a challenge in.....they just simply faded.He can't do it for them.

I am talking in the main the midfield before Onomah and Green come on.

 

[TheAuthority]

So I haven't looked in this thread for a few days. Have we decided if Bruce is any good yet or is he the worst manager we could possibly have?

[Lerner's Driver]

2 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

So I haven't looked in this thread for a few days. Have we decided if Bruce is any good yet or is he the worst manager we could possibly have?

Not yet, but the jurors are being assembled and the evidence is gradually building. Some think he has 2-3 more games and he's a dead man walking. Don't worry, there will be a general consensus before you know it.

[Villarocker]

Hull's defence played like strangers first half. Not surprising given the fact they had lost 4 of their back 5 this summer. On the contrary, we'd changed only 1 of our back 5 and brought in a player who is undoubtedly the best centre back playing in this league. I said to my Dad at half time that - if they can sort themselves out at the back - Hull are going to make us regret not scoring more in that first half. It was a typical, predictable Villa. Nothing new and any other team watching that will know what to do to us, just like last season.

Bruce baffled me on Saturday and seemed to have been out-smarted by a man new to the English game, which is worrying. I don't think we've worked on the areas that needed improving, in the summer, and last season's problems will still be faced. I really hope I'm wrong because this cycle of changing the Manager every season isn't good. I just fear Bruce isn't up to the task. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by villarocker

[mykeyb]

Unbalanced is about right.

How many players has Bruce brought in? and we still look incomplete, 

I don't get why he bought Hogan asI don't think he has the first clue how to use him, which to me highlights the main issue with Bruce in as much as he doesn't appear to know the system he wants to play or how to buy players to fit that system,

I would imagine that a good manager could look at our squad and choose a system and pick the players to fit that system and get better results.

i suspect we are back with Bruce changing the team every week until  he gets a win

[Mjvilla]

11 hours ago, NottingVilla said:

BRUCE WAS A GOOD MANAGER IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE KENNY JACKETTS WERE REPLACED BY THE NUNO SANTO'S.

Ahhh yes, this explains why Neilinho Warnockio has done such a good job at Cardiff. 

[Tommo_b]

4 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

So I haven't looked in this thread for a few days. Have we decided if Bruce is any good yet or is he the worst manager we could possibly have?

General consensus after ONE game into the new season is he should be sacked

[a m ole]

to be fair, Nuno Santo has that mightily impressive 100% win record in the Championship. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by a m ole

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

This has been a common thing under Bruce and it's cost us. I think it's a major deficiency  

It's definitely his biggest fault in my book.