Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

52 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

So Bruce thinks we should have put Samba on earlier?!

Sounds like it won't  be the last we see of that 'tactic'

"it's something for us to consider and work on" 

I'd rather you didn't Steve! 

Please tell me he didn't say we should have put him on earlier. 

[TRO]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:41, TheStagMan said:

No, it's a bad day for me when I watch my team rolling over and drawing when we should have won. It's a bad day for me when we play Samba as a striker, it's a bad day for me when Bacuna is on the pitch, it's a bad day for me when our second half performance is turgid. It's a bad day for me when we demonstrate that our frailties have not been improved, it's a bad day for me when we are under the cosh and everyone can see a goal is coming yet our manager does nothing until it is too late.

It's a bad day for me when Villa are in the Championship. 

I take no pleasure in criticising Bruce because it means that Villa are not doing well. He has been given time, he has demonstrated nothing to show improvement or even a plan. Hopefully he will turn it round, but if he doesn't I reserve the right to criticise him. Especially on days like yesterday when he earns that criticism.

I saw all that too.

you reserve the right to criticise Steve Bruce, but is it not more positive to say what you think should have happened given the squad he has available.

We can all say the football is turgid, but respectfully what does that really mean?.....its like saying " I just wasn't happy" ?????????

I am happy to put forward my thoughts.....whether i am right, is an entirely different thing.

I was debating after the match in the Aston Social.....the prospect of a target man, some agreed, some didn't , but its nice to hear the alternatives.

I am a great believer the balance has to be right( and I still didn't see that on Saturday, after they scored) and I also believe each player has to contribute not just drift aimlessly like Bacuna did.

Edited August 7, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

I was particularly disappointed Bacuna was in the line -up, I understand why he played him but not sure I agree with it.

Despite the many, many chances we had to increase the lead and record an impressive win, we didn't.

The sad fact is we still could have won 1-0( which in the cold light of day, would have been acceptable albeit disappointing on the balance of the early exchanges.......we surrendered the initiative in the middle of the park, their centre backs were winning all the physical exchanges  and subsequently squeezed us and Hogan was left isolated.

Their goal was coming and we could all see it.

I think Steve Bruce will have better days than this....I was particularly disappointed how long he took to make the changes.

I understand the derisory comments of playing Samba upfront but ironically there was an element of it working we stopped conceding ground.

I still think at this level we need that target man, even if its to change the play a bit.

I also noticed certain players not winning their individual battles with their opposite number.....that simply can't happen if we have any aspirations of promotion......they stopped us playing much better than we stopped them.

that is worrying for me.

 

 

[TRO]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:05, TrentVilla said:

Then Bruce should have signed one rather than all the midfielders he has collected or Hogan who he doesn't know how to use.

Last week Whelan was supposed to be the answer to us being able to play, now we need a target man.

Personally I'm increasingly of the view we just need a different manager.

I just think we need a balanced team.....and one where every player does his job.

you make it sound like ( after 7 years of poo) one player is going to save us.....I never indicated that but I think whelan will help......I thought he was left with too much to do of Saturday.

We have had different managers......how many do we need until we can find the right formula.....are they all dense?

which one is the one to have the magic wand?

Trent, I know what you are saying and hey! it might come to it.....just not convinced its the right move......but in saying that, that is quite different to me saying all is well with our play, because its not.

I too had moments of frustration with Steve Bruce on Saturday.....I also had moments of frustration in watching some of our players standing off, when they( Hull) had the ball and them closing us down sharply when we had it.

Edited August 7, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

On 8/6/2017 at 10:48, Stevo985 said:

I agree with your first paragraph.

Disagree with your second though. The football first half was perfectly fine from us. Not spectacular, but decent and we created quite a lot. I don't think Hull's was better. They only created one real chance second half which fair enough, they took.

I think despite our many chances .......after they had scored, Hull could have added to it.

They were working harder, closing us down and winning the second balls, they fought their way back in.....we in response looked laboured in midfield and went missing.

• Bacuna looked shell shocked and subsequently tentative
• Lansbury looked Roughed up and faded.
• Whelan looked like he had too much to do and subsequently lost control

We need to go back to the old days.....player not doing it, hook him, before it spreads.

get tough Steve.

Edited August 7, 2017 by TRO

[mykeyb]

Don't care about Colchester but the next league game could prove to be one of those defining moments, lets how that Bruce can prove me wrong and put out a team that looks organised and eager for the kill......

 

[omariqy]

Dead man walking. 

[dn1982]

Bruce isn't at fault for all the missed chances but whatever happened at half time needs to be looked at. It was blatantly obvious that because we never got the 2nd we would face a resurgent Hull team after the break. The goal was coming all along. Without making any subs we could've dropped Lansbury deeper to control the ball but Bruce did nothing. We looked awful. The need for fresh legs or a change of shape was evident. Is Bruce scared to try to win? Personally I think having Clemence and Calderwood in his ear is not a good thing. He seems to take too long to react. Is he getting differing information so can't decide who to go with? Since Calderwood came we've been more negative. I've no idea if that's the reason or a coincidence but we need a management team that realises we have to attack for 90 min. Games seem to ebb and flow more in this league. You will be under pressure at times but sitting deep doesn't work. For me picking Bacuna over Hourihane shows you want someone to run around more than create. The same can be said for Hutton. Pick someone you think you can trust but is limited in his game rather than some one who can improve the teams play. We need to be braver. 

Last years results and performances have used up all the good faith Bruce had and he needs a very big 10 days results wise. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Please tell me he didn't say we should have put him on earlier. 

He said exactly that. lol

And also that it's something to consider for the future

Edited August 7, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Tommo_b]

21 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Dead man walking. 

One game into the new season against recently relegated from the premier league Hull.....

I just can't. 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Trent, I know what you are saying and hey! it might come to it.....just not convinced its the right move......but in saying that, that is quite different to me saying all is well with our play, because its not.

I too had moments of frustration with Steve Bruce on Saturday.....I also had moments of frustration in watching some of our players standing off, when they( Hull) had the ball and them closing us down sharply when we had it.

I'm not calling for his head, not even remotely close for a whole host of reasons. But I don't think a great deal at all of the job he is doing which is a huge shame because I've always though he was a decent manager and he is a genuily nice bloke. I really wanted this to work and not just because we needed it too.

I defended him last season, at quite some length. 

But what I saw in pre-season worried me, his comments which I still consider excuses added to that then we have Saturday and now the comments re Samba.

It is almost impossible not to see him as yesterday's man, his football certainly belongs in another decade.

He may well turn it around yet, I hope he does and I'm happy for him to have more time to do so but I have little hope that he will.

if the players aren't pressing that is down to Bruce and his coaches, if they aren't moving off the ball likewise. 

For all he wants to raise the issue of FFP he has signed a lot of players, he has had a decent number of games and he just had a preseason. If they still aren't doing as instructed then something is amiss.

I think we've the players to do much better than we did on Saturday, in part thanks to Bruce, the clock is very much ticking for him to get it out of them.

Suggesting we need to work on stuffing the ball up to Samba is just desperate.

[TrentVilla]

 

44 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Dead man walking. 

Not quite but I'd say he has got one shoe on.

[Dave J]

14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm not calling for his head, not even remotely close for a whole host of reasons. But I don't think a great deal at all of the job he is doing which is a huge shame because I've always though he was a decent manager and he is a genuily nice bloke. I really wanted this to work and not just because we needed it too.

I defended him last season, at quite some length. 

But what I saw in pre-season worried me, his comments which I still consider excuses added to that then we have Saturday and now the comments re Samba.

It is almost impossible not to see him as yesterday's man, his football certainly belongs in another decade.

He may well turn it around yet, I hope he does and I'm happy for him to have more time to do so but I have little hope that he will.

if the players aren't pressing that is down to Bruce and his coaches, if they aren't moving off the ball likewise. 

For all he wants to raise the issue of FFP he has signed a lot of players, he has had a decent number of games and he just had a preseason. If they still aren't doing as instructed then something is amiss.

I think we've the players to do much better than we did on Saturday, in part thanks to Bruce, the clock is very much ticking for him to get it out of them.

Suggesting we need to work on stuffing the ball up to Samba is just desperate.

Trent if you believe he is yesterday's man and I for one do not disagree then surely you would also feel that he should be gone? This is not a criticism by the way - more a question 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, Dave J said:

Trent if you believe he is yesterday's man and I for one do not disagree then surely you would also feel that he should be gone? This is not a criticism by the way - more a question 

Fair one.

There are lots of reasons why I'm not advocating a change at this point not least the fact that we are spectacularly bad at appointing managers and as the recent past shows it is possible to make things worse.

Right now there is still a chance he could get us up and the absolute last thing this club needs is another managerial change. And that's without taking into account the cost and FFP implications.

We need to go up this season, I'm willing to give Bruce a little more time to show some indication he can achieve that. If he doesn't he will need to go.

[KHV]

15 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm not calling for his head, not even remotely close for a whole host of reasons. But I don't think a great deal at all of the job he is doing which is a huge shame because I've always though he was a decent manager and he is a genuily nice bloke. I really wanted this to work and not just because we needed it too.

I defended him last season, at quite some length. 

But what I saw in pre-season worried me, his comments which I still consider excuses added to that then we have Saturday and now the comments re Samba.

It is almost impossible not to see him as yesterday's man, his football certainly belongs in another decade.

He may well turn it around yet, I hope he does and I'm happy for him to have more time to do so but I have little hope that he will.

if the players aren't pressing that is down to Bruce and his coaches, if they aren't moving off the ball likewise. 

For all he wants to raise the issue of FFP he has signed a lot of players, he has had a decent number of games and he just had a preseason. If they still aren't doing as instructed then something is amiss.

I think we've the players to do much better than we did on Saturday, in part thanks to Bruce, the clock is very much ticking for him to get it out of them.

Suggesting we need to work on stuffing the ball up to Samba is just desperate.

Same issue as last season, we start off pretty well and don't take our chances. Then in the second half the opposition make a few tweaks here and there and Bruce just has no idea how to react to the changes. He just looks totally dumbfounded on the touchline, he is too slow to react to anything by which point it is too late and any chance of regaining momentum goes. He makes the wrong changes when he eventually makes changes and the master plan of hoofball up to a 33 year old centre back playing upfront is quite frankly embarrassing and is straight out of the Joe Kinnear 1993 playbook.

[Dave J]

Well I for one would not mind at all if he went tomorrow - and not based on Saturday in the slightest - I never wanted him in the first instance and he's done nothing to convince me otherwise - in fact he's only underlined to me why he should not have been appointed in the first place. Imo 

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

Don't care about Colchester but the next league game could prove to be one of those defining moments, lets how that Bruce can prove me wrong and put out a team that looks organised and eager for the kill......

 

This bit times a million. We are like a cat toying with its prey, playing with it and eventually letting them go. We need to kill the game. We need to leave the next opponent on the front doorstep with its guts hanging out everywhere. 

We have the players for that....

[TRO]

I think the dilemma Steve Bruce has is this.. he has an accomplished striker who is injured.....that same striker operates as a lone wolf ( you can make your own mind up if thats good or bad) that striker when fit dictates to some degree the shape of the team.....but hes unavailable.

Currently, we have Scott Hogan who is a different kind of striker and in my humble opinion is not a lone wolf and works best with another striker, someone he can play off...... we haven't got one on the books....not suitable.

some can say, why didn't he sign one?.....fair point....but its about priorities and how the manager see's them, maybe the players he signed he needed them as well....FFP is acting as a bit of a hindrance....and it comes back to that old chesnut, we have signed too many players who have not worked out.....its easy to say its successive managers and with the turnover we have had they never quite get accountable for their purchases, that assuming of course it was entirely their decision.

It kinda comes back to more questions than answers.

I don't think it is unreasonable to aim criticism at Steve Bruce, but unsure all of it is justified, unsure all of it is accurate.

Personally, I don't care for him selecting Bacuna....but he will have to live and die by those decisions.

I think Trent made a very good point in suggesting that our record for replacing managers isn't that great and each wants new staff and a hefty budget not to mention at least 12 months to progress......Hmmmmmm.

Whether he should or whether he shouldn't but this team still does not look balanced to me.....maybe the injuries are highlighting it.

 

[NottingVilla]

Said it about 10 times on this forum but I'll say it again - he should have gone after that run of 8 defeats in 9 games last season. Or at very least be sacked off the back of it in the summer. 

Trouble is Round is a bit of Granded too isn't he? So replacement could be another dud.

BRUCE WAS A GOOD MANAGER IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE KENNY JACKETTS WERE REPLACED BY THE NUNO SANTO'S.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, NottingVilla said:

Said it about 10 times on this forum but I'll say it again - he should have gone after that run of 8 defeats in 9 games last season. Or at very least be sacked off the back of it in the summer. 

Trouble is Round is a bit of Granded too isn't he? So replacement could be another dud.

BRUCE WAS A GOOD MANAGER IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE KENNY JACKETTS WERE REPLACED BY THE NUNO SANTO'S.

There has been a fair share of continental managers who have failed miserably on these shores.....not least our own pioneering football philosopher Dr Josef Vengloss.

There is no distinction.....there is just good and not so good managers or successful and not so successful managers......there are rakes of factors too that make it all possible.

How many great managers like cloughie make success look simple, then fall flat on their arse at Leeds.....there are so many reasons it don't work.....and keep sacking them rarely works either.

If you listen to the knowledge of Glenn Hoddle , he is full of it and knows the game inside out.....couldn't make it at Wolves though.

We can all make conclusions from nothing.....most of it is pure conjecture.

Sam Allardyce who is arguably a contemporary of Steve Bruce saved Crystal Palace at the death last season by beating three tops sides managed by the sort of managers you allude to.

Its not as simple as you are suggesting.