Steve Bruce

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, brummybloke said:

You can normally tell how good players movement it by throw ins.

Ours for the last 2 or 3 years are static and I would guess a large percentage of the throw ins get turned over into the opposition's possession.

 

Basic movement is needed in pretty much all aspects of football rather than relying on brute strength or large height difference.

 

Would like far more movement in the team now we have players who can pick the runs and pass accurately and quickly.

It was very noticeable that Veretout was showing for most of the throws.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Maybe his style suited the players he had.

If I'm given a sledgehammer 4 times and told to knock a wall down I hit it with the sledgehammer each time and down it comes.

If, next time, I'm given some wire, some trigonometry, and a couple of hooks, I need to use them differently - no good hitting the wall with them.

But he has signed a lot of them. Something just isn't right. Could morale be low? I got a feeling we won't know the truth until changes get made. 

[Jareth]

14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yes that is exactly what people are saying.... 

Great, for a moment it felt like everyone had decided to write the season off after 2 preseason games. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

45 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

I've tried to defend Bruce in the hope he comes good but I can't argue with any of this.

[sne]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

But he has signed a lot of them. Something just isn't right. Could morale be low? I got a feeling we won't know the truth until changes get made. 

This is all speculation and a wild stab in the dark.

But I come back to the coaching that I fear is sub par and not what many of the players signed hoped for and expected at a big (ish) club like Villa.

I think it, along with the style of play might have left some of the signings feeling dejected and despondent.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, terrytini said:

So do you see the HUGE gap that is regularly between our back 9 and front 2 ? Do you see how negatively we are set up ?

Because whilst that's not what 'everybody' sees it is what everybody I know sees.

If you see that how on earth can you think its some sort of mystery ?

Its the Managers choice to play that way TRO  - I just don't understand how you DONT see that if y see all the rest.

Terry, I am not trying to be purposely obstructive..... we are just seeing the same problem.....but differently.

Yes I do see all of that.....but not convinced its all down to him in that context.....not saying he is criticism free either.

with the exception of Jed, we have no one who can comfortably win the ball further up the pitch.....I was hoping we would have Whelan or a player with similar attributes coming in , we still might.

I look at Hourhane and Lansbury and I am not convinced they are comfortable with that side of the midfield job.....it looks like they are being asked to do it and are losing ground which makes it look like we are purposely playing deep.....I see many of our midfield players losing the ball cheaply, we need a player to chaperone ( if thats the right word) them to a point.....and dig in.

We need  a Townsend or Richardson, Mcmahon or McCann (even) someone to do the ugly stuff and release the others to play.

I love Jed but he is a bit static ( could have been his groin affecting him) I want to see one further up snapping and  biting at their heels and then playing the better players in.

We have good players, just not the right mix IMO

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by TRO

[omariqy]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

Absolutely this.  The point about lack of ambition being key. There is something rotten inside our club and we just can't seem to get rid of it.

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yet people say we signed a dud in Hogan.

Its amazing the different ways people see the same game.

it is  the same game......there's only one game with 40,000 odd different interpretations of it......who all think they are right

or Its seeing the same problem and disagreeing on whats causing it.

but then there is one thing we all agree on ......getting out of this league.

Edited July 17, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Absolutely this.  The point about lack of ambition being key. There is something rotten inside our club and we just can't seem to get rid of it.

Its very profound.....but the whole bloomin' thing  is an enigma.

[romavillan]

40 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yet people say we signed a dud in Hogan.

Its amazing the different ways people see the same game.

Even if you allow for 50% of the "proven at this level" signings we made from last summer onwards to fail, then we STILL should have enough to be seeing better on the pitch. Much better on the pitch, these players were smashing this league in a different shirt. We aren't even talking about smashing anything, I'd just like to see off the ball movement to allow us to keep the fuggen ball a bit so that we coudl create some chances to score. It really isn't a lot to ask, I don't need to see Brazil '70 or '82, I just don't want to be completely baffled as to why the players in claret and blue cannot move in to spaces, trap the ball and then give it to another one who has moved in to space. Kids do it FFS, i've seen kids being coached over here and the basics are repeated all the time, where to be when you don't have it so as to minimise the chances the opposition can score relative to the player with the ball and his teammates etc. Then where to go when you have it and your teammate needs to find a pass. They do it at walking pace, again and again and again. 

That we manage to get players who have shown attributes so far above the basics as to be seen head and shoulders above most at this level and then after they put our shirt on then the basics go out the window is as baffling to me as what happens when people put on an England shirt...

[Vive_La_Villa]

The more I read this thread the more concerned I am becoming. Some very good points have been raised but I still think a lot the worries that stem from Saturday still be down to match fitness rather than tactics or confidence. There has to be improvement. 

[villakram]

I'd ignored this for a bit but with even the pro-Bruce folks getting worried... I'm becoming bloody depressed. We don't deserve another season of misery, do we? 

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

good post.  Clearly, your attributing it to "lack of ambition" communicates better to others.  I have for months been calling it the ability to excuse shortcomings on the basis that "it's the best we could do, considering......."   We need to quit seeing ourselves as the victim of a neglectful owner or any other of a thousand excuses we are apparently willing to accept.   As it is, we have lack of movement and it's acceptable because they play the next match, too.  we have concentration lapses on the "runners" and it's acceptable because they play the next match, too.  the list goes on and on.  There is a lack of ambition because our players are not REQUIRED to play with ambition.

[bobzy]

52 minutes ago, TRO said:

with the exception of Jed, we have no one who can comfortably win the ball further up the pitch.....I was hoping we would have Whelan or a player with similar attributes coming in , we still might.

I look at Hourhane and Lansbury and I am not convinced they are comfortable with that side of the midfield job.....it looks like they are being asked to do it and are losing ground which makes it look like we are purposely playing deep.....I see many of our midfield players losing the ball cheaply, we need a player to chaperone ( if thats the right word) them to a point.....and dig in.

 

Conor Hourihane, at Barnsley, averaged the 5th most tackles of any player in the league last season - 3.2 per game.

Conor Hourihane, at Aston Villa, was nowhere near this - 1.5 per game.

 

He is a player who is capable of pressing, winning the ball and creating goals.  For whatever reason, we are yet to see any of this.  I'm not convinced that Conor Hourihane has suddenly forgotten what got him his move to Aston Villa.  There's a fundamental problem with the way we setup.

[Lord Willard]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

Why does no one high up at Villa understand this? Everyone else can see it. 

[Jareth]

Cue convincing preseason win and sales of razor blades in Witton dropping through the floor. Or not. 

[Grasshopper]

5 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

when has he got those promotions with AVFC?

or did I miss something?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

36 minutes ago, villakram said:

I'd ignored this for a bit but with even the pro-Bruce folks getting worried... I'm becoming bloody depressed. We don't deserve another season of misery, do we? 

Same. lol

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

when has he got those promotions with AVFC?

or did I miss something?

So we need a manager that has a record of getting AVFC promoted? Is Ron available? 

[wazzap24]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

I'd ignored this for a bit but with even the pro-Bruce folks getting worried... I'm becoming bloody depressed. We don't deserve another season of misery, do we? 

Don't be depressed, we are going to win the league.