TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: If he does fail and he if he is replaced and if the new manager actually gets performances out of these players then someone will have to eat humble pie. Yes that's a lot of its but realistically we were only going to bring in 3 or 4 players which was never going to be enough if the players are sub-standard. I believe they players are good enough and if they are played in the right formation, with the right tactics the results will prove that. The only question is will it be Bruce? well that means the boot could be on the other foot too.....but yes for sure. well who has said all of the players are sub-standard?.....maybe some. well the only time the the right formation and tactics work is if you have the right players. We are still trying to get players in and i don't think they are for cover, i think they are for the first team, which would suggest to me his first 11 is not complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, Tayls said: People are aware that we only really lost the game once we had a CB pairing of Richards and Hutton right? Chill. Seriously. How many shots did we register whilst the proper players were on the pitch? how dangerous did we look? I don't really care that we lost the game. Its the deja vu feeling of watching us unable to create anything again, especially against league 1 opposition. Our first shot on target was a penalty in injury time. The first 2 side by side friendlies were against a bunch of trialists so obviously not going to look at those as an indication of where we are. If we had 12 attempts at goal and lost 2-1 I wouldnt be so annoyed, its the fact that nothing has been done to rectify our lack of creativity other than being linked with Elmohammady. Its almost as if Bruce doesnt think theres a problem going forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, praisedmambo said: Nobody cares about humble pie in that situation. We all just want the club to do well. When Di Matteo was sacked the options weren't abundant. The exciting, flavour-of-the-month managers (like Wagner) in the Championship ruled themselves out. We got Bruce who has unarguably achieved our major aim on numerous occasions (promotion obviously). It definitely made a lot of sense. I think it's important to embrace the fact that before Bruce came we had been shit for about 6 years with none of our players capable of doing the basics of football. Before Bruce we had won about 4 games in 45. He came in and has 15 in 36. We were bad to watch under Bruce and we were unconvincing, but even that was a vast improvement on what came before when we barely even looked professional. We began looking competitive for the first time since Sherwood's brief revival. Is that improvement enough for me? Yeah. Why? Because fixing the mess this club has been in is a big ongoing job. It is still happening, obviously. Without even going into the impression given at times that people have lost their heads over a pre-season friendly, I'd argue that sacking Bruce now is utter madness. We all want promotion to happen this season and Bruce will 100% have no more time than that, I believe, but he just has to have the chance to do it. He's done it many times before at many other clubs. That and the hugely mitigating circumstances of the-mess-that-was-this-club should all be enough to let him continue for now. Well, I see now people are conveniently attributing his achievements at Hull to the attacking coaches so the whole debate is yet another ludicrously polarised one. I'd consider myself firmly in the more-than-happy-to-give-Bruce-a-chance, yet-not-convinced, want-us-to-play-better-football, want-us-to-look-actually-threatening grey area, not from some black-and-white 'he's great' point of view. I guess all this discussion isn't going to get anywhere anyway. We'll all have to wait and see once the season is under way and of course some people are going to be wrong. I hope I'm right and I don't have to eat humble pie because that would mean another shit season for the club. The main thing is that I really hope he succeeds because I want Villa to succeed. good post that. thats my position too. I think the building is not finished and when we look more balanced i think some of the hang ups will disappear. I must say the impression I get from fans regarding Steve Bruce away from this site is quite different. Not sure what that suggests, but strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, TRO said: good post that. thats my position too. I think the building is not finished and when we look more balanced i think some of the hang ups will disappear. I must say the impression I get from fans regarding Steve Bruce away from this site is quite different. Not sure what that suggests, but strange. It suggests that VT'ers are smarter than other fans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TRO said: good post that. thats my position too. I think the building is not finished and when we look more balanced i think some of the hang ups will disappear. I must say the impression I get from fans regarding Steve Bruce away from this site is quite different. Not sure what that suggests, but strange. Hmmm. Everybody I heard or spoke with yesterday and at Kidderminster made the views expressed on this site seem very mild and conservative. I will say I've met nobody who wants him to fail. But - going right back to December - I've spoken to nobody who expects him to succeed, either. Some think we don't have the players, a few think we are cursed. But most, just like on here, feel that either by his failings as a coach or by his deliberate cautious approach he simply hasn't come close to putting together a threatening side. Edited July 16, 2017 by terrytini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, terrytini said: Hmmm. Everybody I heard or spoke with yesterday and at Kidderminster made the views expressed on this site seem very mild and conservative. I will say I've met nobody who wants him to fail. But - going right back to December - I've spoken to nobody who expects him to succeed, either. interesting I'll bet John Terry don't expect him to fail. Terry he could well fail....its not beyond reason, I don't think he will but. I think the problem lies in Midfield......I think we have some decent midfielders, but are too similar, not enough contrast, with the exception of Jed. We have players who can create.....but we keep losing the ball and other than Jed no one to win it back.....no ball, no attack. The midfield is too deep and should be ball winning further up the pitch. We need a player who is comfortable winning the ball and can get about the place to send players.....someone to START attacks we have attacking midfielders who are playing too deep, trying to win the ball, when they get it run in to trouble or out of steam and give it away cheaply....invariably there is no one running off the ball, because it should be them. They are trying to fill in for the type of player we haven't got and they can't do it. Well we certainly haven't got when Jed is out. Edited July 16, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: I will say I've met nobody who wants him to fail. key for me. I think everybody would love if he was doing a fine job or showing signs of improvement. We have been so crap for so long that a little bit of hope will make us support you Look at Lambert he got a lot of time(probably way too much) for that reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, terrytini said: Hmmm. Everybody I heard or spoke with yesterday and at Kidderminster made the views expressed on this site seem very mild and conservative. I will say I've met nobody who wants him to fail. But - going right back to December - I've spoken to nobody who expects him to succeed, either. I actually expect him to succeed, you don't get promoted on 4 occasions without some ability as a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: key for me. I think everybody would love if he was doing a fine job or showing signs of improvement. We have been so crap for so long that a little bit of hope will make us support you Look at Lambert he got a lot of time(probably way too much) for that reason. Thinking about Lambert, I think he may have actually performed miracles keeping us in the premier league for as long as he did considering Randy had all but given up on the club, Edited July 16, 2017 by Tommo_b 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Yes well I'm sure many many sides have had winners in but failed. Again fwiw I don't think he WILL fail. I was just responding to your comment about what you heard away from this site with what I hear. I think every fan is desperate for him to succeed. Desperate for even a crumb if something positive. And desperately hoping that even if he messes it up we somehow struggle through. But there was a sour mood yesterday, a few poor results got real his support will drop through the floor. Equally a couple of good early ones people will get right behind him Desparate......that's what we are.....we all know he needs to crack it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: I actually expect him to succeed, you don't get promoted on 4 occasions without some ability as a manager. I agree. Havent met people who think so though !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I feel like we've dug a massive hole for ourselves with the decisions over the last year or so and this house of cards is starting to crumble on us. The first mistake was appointing RDM. He wasn't the man to rebuild a failing club from scratch and his transfer policy left us lacking and unbalanced. Bruce seemed like a good idea on paper, but the niggling doubts a number of our fans had are slowly coming to pass. And again - there's something wrong with the transfer policy - Bruce has gone down the path of signing headline acts from other clubs, but there's no real team cohesion and there hasn't seemed to be any foresight of how they'll work as a unit, or what system suits them best. It's a Championship Manager/moneyball approach to transfers based on stats. And now we've already got one eye on FFP, and we're struggling to move on some of the dregs, so now we're hamstrung by what can do in the transfer market. The ultimate outcome, IMO, will be that Bruce will be gone before Xmas. I just don't think he is going to be able to connect the dots on this bloated and disjointed squad. The will be his failing and it will eventually cost him his job. That'll mean we'll be on to our third manager in around 18 months. That's if the club can afford to sack him and his backroom staff. But let's say they can, the quick fix of a new manager might be the simple remedy the club needs, or it could eventually just be another failed appointment because what's to say they'll get the next one right after failing at the first two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yes well I'm sure many many sides have had winners in but failed. Again fwiw I don't think he WILL fail. I was just responding to your comment about what you heard away from this site with what I hear. I think every fan is desperate for him to succeed. Desperate for even a crumb if something positive. And desperately hoping that even if he messes it up we somehow struggle through. But there was a sour mood yesterday, a few poor results got real his support will drop through the floor. Equally a couple of good early ones people will get right behind him Desparate......that's what we are.....we all know he needs to crack it. well that is better news....look I watched it on You Tube and was grossly unimpressed. I think I know what is causing it....wished I actually Knew for certain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: I feel like we've dug a massive hole for ourselves with the decisions over the last year or so and this house of cards is starting to crumble on us. The first mistake was appointing RDM. He wasn't the man to rebuild a failing club from scratch and his transfer policy left us lacking and unbalanced. Bruce seemed like a good idea on paper, but the niggling doubts a number of our fans had are slowly coming to pass. And again - there's something wrong with the transfer policy - Bruce has gone down the path of signing headline acts from other clubs, but there's no real team cohesion and there hasn't seemed to be any foresight of how they'll work as a unit, or what system suits them best. It's a Championship Manager/moneyball approach to transfers based on stats. And now we've already got one eye on FFP, and we're struggling to move on some of the dregs, so now we're hamstrung by what can do in the transfer market. The ultimate outcome, IMO, will be that Bruce will be gone before Xmas. I just don't think he is going to be able to connect the dots on this bloated and disjointed squad. The will be his failing and it will eventually cost him his job. That'll mean we'll be on to our third manager in around 18 months. That's if the club can afford to sack him and his backroom staff. But let's say they can, the quick fix of a new manager might be the simple remedy the club needs, or it could eventually just be another failed appointment because what's to say they'll get the next one right after failing at the first two. can't argue with that. The worry is in bold......all these players don't look together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: We still look completely void of ideas going forward, with no idea how to get Hogan into a game. Hogan needs someone threading "through balls" for him to run onto, but we don't play with players between the lines to do that. All in my humble opinion of course. Unfortunately for AVFC your humble opinion is way over Bruces head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 38 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: I actually expect him to succeed, you don't get promoted on 4 occasions without some ability as a manager. Two of those were over a decade ago now werent they? Its a very different time. Plus has he not been utterly useless and then sacked once hes actually got into the bigger division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Reality is slowly rearing its ugly head. The tide is turning and as the fence colapses under the sheer volume of weight, as the "on the fencers" choose the Bruce Out side, it is growing slowly but surely in its mass. As the masses contemplate if its even worth it to utter the disheartening words "We told you so" the equally disheartened folk who are still wondering "4 promotions - a preseason - more time - so what went wrong? stand in front of an enormous humble pie wondering if they should even bother opening their mouths. Then consider this DrT spends 75mill buying the club plus millions more in new players & wages, now having been failed by 2 managers and 2 board members - would you blame him for giving up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2017 Let's not forget there's a lot of new partnerships forming throughout the team. Terry and Chester. Veretout and Hourihane starting their first game together. McCormack and Hogan playing together for only the second time. Let's see how pre-season and the first few competitive games unfold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Reality is slowly rearing its ugly head. The tide is turning and as the fence colapses under the sheer volume of weight, as the "on the fencers" choose the Bruce Out side, it is growing slowly but surely in its mass. Jesus this sounds like a narration for World War Z or a new Star Wars. lol Edited July 16, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Reality is slowly rearing its ugly head. The tide is turning and as the fence colapses under the sheer volume of weight, as the "on the fencers" choose the Bruce Out side, it is growing slowly but surely in its mass. As the masses contemplate if its even worth it to utter the disheartening words "We told you so" the equally disheartened folk who are still wondering "4 promotions - a preseason - more time - so what went wrong? stand in front of an enormous humble pie wondering if they should even bother opening their mouths. Then consider this DrT spends 75mill buying the club plus millions more in new players & wages, now having been failed by 2 managers and 2 board members - would you blame him for giving up? Oh there is a few ugly heads, but i can't say one is reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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