Steve Bruce

[romavillan]

5 hours ago, delboy54 said:

Hi all

I didnt see any of the Shrewsbury game but it sounded like any of the games we played last year...hardly any shots on target etc...

I was able to see the Villa 10 times last year and apart from the very rare second or first half of a game where we actually looked good, the rest of it was pretty dire to be honest. In almost 50 years seeing Villa play,..... for the first time I walked out early during the Ipswich game home loss.....dreadful performance.

My concern is not really the players to be honest. Most of the "new" signings have proven themselves playing with other clubs. My concern is when SB says he "doesnt do tactics". Now if he is not involved with this side of the game them who is?

Arguably many will say tactics is overrated, its just a simple game. But many teams that we played last year were able to neutralise us and take advantage of our known weaknesses. So why are we not doing the same to these teams?

Coaching is I think the main issue, this is where the problem lies... Why are we not playing our players in their natural position? what is the point during these friendlies in experimenting by playing players in positions that they dont normally play in?  SB should be by now, fine tuning the "playing system", so that all players know their jobs and when injuries and suspensions come along then integrating replacements into a known (hopefully successful) system should be easy. It appears that we are far far away from this as possible. In fact I would say that tactics, team formation or style of play, call it what you want, we are no further forward in developing this than we were 9 months ago.

Rant over........Enjoy the Summer!

Regards to all

Del

Yep for too long it would seem that we've needed a real shake up in the coaching, we have first class facilities, we don't appear to have had first class coaching. I can't remember the last time I wasn't just inwardly screaming "MOVE" when watchign us play. We constantly seem incapable of doing the most simple stuff that kids get coached to do, move into space and give the poor sod on teh ball as many options as possible. That's before getting in to how to unlock the defence of a particular team.

[brummybloke]

You can normally tell how good players movement it by throw ins.

Ours for the last 2 or 3 years are static and I would guess a large percentage of the throw ins get turned over into the opposition's possession.

 

Basic movement is needed in pretty much all aspects of football rather than relying on brute strength or large height difference.

 

Would like far more movement in the team now we have players who can pick the runs and pass accurately and quickly.

[romavillan]

2 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

You can normally tell how good players movement it by throw ins.

Ours for the last 2 or 3 years are static and I would guess a large percentage of the throw ins get turned over into the opposition's possession.

 

Basic movement is needed in pretty much all aspects of football rather than relying on brute strength or large height difference.

 

Would like far more movement in the team now we have players who can pick the runs and pass accurately and quickly.

our throw in's have been gifts for the opposition since MON left pretty much and then his were pretty predictable down the line flick on but were at least effective most of the time. I tend to feel sorry for whoever has the ball in their hands when it's a throw-in for us.

[bannedfromHandV]

44 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

If this is the case then Bruce should go today as a significant number of the first team were signed by him.

But they're more than capable of passing 10 yards to a teammate, the issue is psychological in my opinion.

Been saying it for years now, there's something wrong with the club and it seems to effect most if not all of the players and staff we bring in.

 

[KSV]

39 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But they're more than capable of passing 10 yards to a teammate, the issue is psychological in my opinion.

Been saying it for years now, there's something wrong with the club and it seems to effect most if not all of the players and staff we bring in.

 

We hired a sports psychologist in November 2016. I think we are looking at hiring another one to help lift the one we hired in November. 

[Junxs]

Its becoming a bit of a myth that we cant pass 10 yards, I know things are bad on the eye but something that may have happened once or twice seems to have become the norm in peoples eyes.

Its the threaded through balls for our strikers to run on to that we are struggling with, i think the problem is that there are too many 10 yard passes around the defence and midfield area with no attempts to go further 

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Its becoming a bit of a myth that we cant pass 10 yards, I know things are bad on the eye but something that may have happened once or twice seems to have become the norm in peoples eyes.

Its the threaded through balls for our strikers to run on to that we are struggling with, i think the problem is that there are too many 10 yard passes around the defence and midfield area with no attempts to go further 

Exactly , tempo is far too slow and negative , play on the front foot and attack the opposition instead of sitting back tapping 5 yard passes about.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, brummybloke said:

You can normally tell how good players movement it by throw ins.

Ours for the last 2 or 3 years are static and I would guess a large percentage of the throw ins get turned over into the opposition's possession.

 

Basic movement is needed in pretty much all aspects of football rather than relying on brute strength or large height difference.

 

Would like far more movement in the team now we have players who can pick the runs and pass accurately and quickly.

you are quite right, but only one set of attributes is not enough......its great having movement and i am a great admirer of it but when the opposition do catch you, if you don't have robustness& tenacity you end up losing it.

Brute force on its own is questionable.....its the teams that have them all that have more chance of winning things......our movement has been poor for years, but so has our combative edge too.....our ability to hold the ball has been debatable.....our running off the ball is spasmodic as opposed to consistent......there are rakes of shortfalls.

We have been short in too many area's for too long......its a long haul back.

Edited July 17, 2017 by TRO

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But they're more than capable of passing 10 yards to a teammate, the issue is psychological in my opinion.

Been saying it for years now, there's something wrong with the club and it seems to effect most if not all of the players and staff we bring in.

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

[sne]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brace on the ball and we aren't brace off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

Top post!

[GodsBarkeep]

1 hour ago, brummybloke said:

You can normally tell how good players movement it by throw ins.

Ours for the last 2 or 3 years are static and I would guess a large percentage of the throw ins get turned over into the opposition's possession.

 

Basic movement is needed in pretty much all aspects of football rather than relying on brute strength or large height difference.

 

Would like far more movement in the team now we have players who can pick the runs and pass accurately and quickly.

People talk about Brucey being 'yesterdays man's, I'm strongly beginning to suspect that all training is done on a fussball or subbuteo table.

How else can we explain the staticity of our play?! 

I'm not calling for a manager change  just yet. Ultimately SB is responsible, but you have to wonder what the rest of the coaching team are doing. Like many I'd hoped the backroom shake up would rectify the seeming tactical ineptitude of recent years, but it remains to be seen.

That being said everything is crossed for the new season (including my eyes), in the hope that it all magically comes together. 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brace on the ball and we aren't brace off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

I find it hard to disagree with that....good resume IMO

I think BFHV could be barking up the right tree too.

However,How many managers and coaches do we change....How many players do we change?

something is clearly amiss.

The club has a big old history and is a daunting place both the stadium and the training ground.....The fans don't expect us to be where we are......do they partially freeze.

I see all the short comings everyone see's ..........I wish I knew the answer to what is causing it.

I think if we changed manager, there is no guarantee, we would be any better and at the moment the same could be said for players.

its like being caught in between a rock and a hard place......results are the only thing that will make further changes to the managers position.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by TRO

[Jareth]

2 preseason games in, and putting aside the winning one where a few goals were scored, Bruce is clearly overseeing the downfall of AVFC. Well ok then.

[sne]

I think the "easiest" solution or quick fix is to make adjustments in the coaching staff. It should have been done already.

Since Bruce is staying and that has been made clear early on I think the club has missed the boat by not bringing in one or more attack oriented coaches to handle that side of the game.

That part isn't Bruce's forte and Calderwood and Clemence hasn't changed things for the better either. As far as I can see anyway...

Bring in a coach or assistant who can sort out the attack ASAP. Or else it will end in tears for both Bruce and us Villa fans I fear.

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, Jareth said:

2 preseason games in, and putting aside the winning one where a few goals were scored, Bruce is clearly overseeing the downfall of AVFC. Well ok then.

Yes that is exactly what people are saying.... 

[terrytini]

21 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are capable, more than capable in fact I was being a little facetious.

Players like Lansbury and Hourihane are perfectly capable of passing the ball as they showed before arriving at the club.

The issues in the pitch aren't about the individuals, although individual errors have been costly to us, the issues are collective.

The lack of goals is due to a lack of creativity and patterns of play, the impact of which is exacerbated by the lack of retention of the ball. The lack of possession is the result of a lack of movement off the ball. The lack of movement off the ball comes back to the training ground, training and coaching.

What happens on the pitch is the result of what happens in training. Sure it's down to the players once they get out there, the manager can only do so much but that is because they and their coaches do their job in the week.

The lack of movement in our side is about the only characteristic that you could point to as being a consistent element in our game.

Too frequently we are too deep, ball players are so far back they can do no damage and men ahead of the ball only really happens on opposition goal kicks.

Our players are often cautious or worse in possession because they are used to having few options when they lift their head.

We aren't brave on the ball and we aren't brave off he ball. We aren't, in my opinion, set up in a way that suggests we ever want to dominate games through the control of the ball and I can't see that the players training through the week isn't indicative of that.

I simply cant understand the logic of buying a player like Lansbury and then playing him so deep, or absolving Bruce of some of the blame allowing him to play so deep. However I struggle to understand why Lansbury would suddenly have decided to change his game having arrived at BMH.

I wholeheartedly agree there is something wrong at the club. It's been wrong since O'Neill just as it was wrong before he arrived, it's a lack of ambition.

I mean real ambition. Before O'Neill the club didn't have it and we lost it when he went. The Dr has tried to put it back but it's still not really evident within the club on or off the pitch.

But that is a much bigger discussion and one for another thread.

So far this summer Bruce seems keen to make us more solid yet it was a lack of goals scored that really cost us last season and I don't see that problem having been rectified. 

It's exceedingly early days so far but right now I expect us to have very similar shortcomings this season as last.

 

Yes Yes Yes - the most important highlight of a perfect summing up of what's going on.

I've been saying it for months, the guys around me say it, when my lad watches 5 minutes of us he says it.  Many on here say it.

Everyone was saying it at Kiddy.  Everyone was saying it at Shrewsbury.

It's fundamental and its the root of all our troubles.

I'm absolutely staggered that a few fans, and  - incredibly - possibly Bruce don't see it.

I'm equally surprised that no journalist has even mentioned it - they all read these Boards.

How can you threaten from your own half ?  How can the Midfield find the front men from 50 yards away ?  How can you occupy another sides defence with only two guys in their half for 80% of a game ?  How can you be surprised that "little mistakes have cost us" when the law of averages says if you threaten so little and crate so little you are bound to be susceptible to mistakes ?

Its because its SO obvious I still have hope.  SURELY he sees it ?  SURELY he will change and become more positive, give players more licence ?

SURELY it will start tomorrow ?  (But Ive said that twice this season already).

Great Post Trent.

[DaveAV1]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

I guess everyone has their time, no matter what they do. Times change and I do feel there are much more progressive managers now at Championship level. Some of those managers have got promoted and managed to do a good job in the Premiership too. Eddie Howe and Sean Dyke spring to mind. Wagner has just got Huddersfield up on an considerably lower budget than we have spent. 

I know people will point at Wagner and say he had a poor first season but was given time. But I imagine that during that season he showed that he had a plan and was making progress, plus as a younger manager, with lower expectations he could be expected to be given time to develop. Surely SB has been in the job long enough now?

[terrytini]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

I find it hard to disagree with that....good resume IMO

I think BFHV could be barking up the right tree.

How many managers and coaches do we change....How many players do we change.

something is clearly amiss.

The club has a big old history and is a daunting place both the stadium and the training ground.....The fans don't expect us to be where we are......do they partially freeze.

I see all the short comings everyone see's ..........I wish I knew the answer to what is causing it.

I think if we changed manager, there is no guarantee, we would be any better.

its like being caught in between a rock and a hard place......results are the only thing that will make further changes.

 

 

So do you see the HUGE gap that is regularly between our back 9 and front 2 ? Do you see how negatively we are set up ?

Because whilst that's not what 'everybody' sees it is what everybody I know sees.

If you see that how on earth can you think its some sort of mystery ?

Its the Managers choice to play that way TRO  - I just don't understand how you DONT see that if y see all the rest.

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yes Yes Yes - the most important highlight of a perfect summing up of what's going on.

I've been saying it for months, the guys around me say it, when my lad watches 5 minutes of us he says it.  Many on here say it.

Everyone was saying it at Kiddy.  Everyone was saying it at Shrewsbury.

It's fundamental and its the root of all our troubles.

I'm absolutely staggered that a few fans, and  - incredibly - possibly Bruce don't see it.

I'm equally surprised that no journalist has even mentioned it - they all read these Boards.

How can you threaten from your own half ?  How can the Midfield find the front men from 50 yards away ?  How can you occupy another sides defence with only two guys in their half for 80% of a game ?  How can you be surprised that "little mistakes have cost us" when the law of averages says if you threaten so little and crate so little you are bound to be susceptible to mistakes ?

Its because its SO obvious I still have hope.  SURELY he sees it ?  SURELY he will change and become more positive, give players more licence ?

SURELY it will start tomorrow ?  (But Ive said that twice this season already).

Great Post Trent.

Yet people say we signed a dud in Hogan.

Its amazing the different ways people see the same game.

[terrytini]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

Maybe his style suited the players he had.

If I'm given a sledgehammer 4 times and told to knock a wall down I hit it with the sledgehammer each time and down it comes.

If, next time, I'm given some wire, some trigonometry, and a couple of hooks, I need to use them differently - no good hitting the wall with them.