Steve Bruce

[Vive_La_Villa]

I really hope we look better against Walsall and resemble a team that has a plan. I think everyone needs to see something to spread a bit of optimism. 

[DaveAV1]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I really hope we look better against Walsall and resemble a team that has a plan. I think everyone needs to see something to spread a bit of optimism. 

I agree. Ok I realise that actual results in friendlies don't gain you any points, but they can have an effect on confidence and momentum, important commodities  that we haven't seen a lot of in the last few years. 

[delboy54]

Hi all

I didnt see any of the Shrewsbury game but it sounded like any of the games we played last year...hardly any shots on target etc...

I was able to see the Villa 10 times last year and apart from the very rare second or first half of a game where we actually looked good, the rest of it was pretty dire to be honest. In almost 50 years seeing Villa play,..... for the first time I walked out early during the Ipswich game home loss.....dreadful performance.

My concern is not really the players to be honest. Most of the "new" signings have proven themselves playing with other clubs. My concern is when SB says he "doesnt do tactics". Now if he is not involved with this side of the game them who is?

Arguably many will say tactics is overrated, its just a simple game. But many teams that we played last year were able to neutralise us and take advantage of our known weaknesses. So why are we not doing the same to these teams?

Coaching is I think the main issue, this is where the problem lies... Why are we not playing our players in their natural position? what is the point during these friendlies in experimenting by playing players in positions that they dont normally play in?  SB should be by now, fine tuning the "playing system", so that all players know their jobs and when injuries and suspensions come along then integrating replacements into a known (hopefully successful) system should be easy. It appears that we are far far away from this as possible. In fact I would say that tactics, team formation or style of play, call it what you want, we are no further forward in developing this than we were 9 months ago.

Rant over........Enjoy the Summer!

Regards to all

Del

[Vive_La_Villa]

The thing for me isn't the tactics or lack of plan. It's the players inabilty to do the basics. Strikers not able to hold up the ball. Poor touches. lack of movement, poor passing and crossing. Just generally all round sloppy stuff. Now this during a season is not acceptable but during pre season you can put it down to fitness and lack of sharpness. 

I just don't get it and I bet even Bruce will be scratching his head if the seasons starts the same way. Then he will have to go and we start again. 

[Ingram85]

Yes friendlies are fitness first more often than not but the teams we have played this pre season bar watford we should be winning them all on a bad day.

I dont think Bruce has any tactics or ability to change things. Nothing I've seen last year seems to have changed and that's telling. I'll reserve judgement until we've played 10 or more league games but my faith in Bruce's abilities are at rock bottom. He just doesn't seem to have anything about him.

But also the fringe players and regular subs should be busting a gut in pre-season to show Bruce that they should be starting this coming season, trying to impress and they aren't.

Its all there on paper, a great squad but there is no cohesion and seemingly no defined plan and this is where Bruce is faltering imo, he needs to kick on out of this stale malaise and try to take it to the other teams with all guns blazing. But Im starting to doubt him.

Hopefully, once the season starts he will go for it and we will kick on. My gut says otherwise and we are in for a sporadic season much like the last one. Please prove me wrong Bruce.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ingram85

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The thing for me isn't the tactics or lack of plan. It's the players inabilty to do the basics. Strikers not able to hold up the ball. Poor touches. lack of movement, poor passing and crossing. Just generally all round sloppy stuff. Now this during a season is not acceptable but during pre season you can put it down to fitness and lack of sharpness. 

I just don't get it and I bet even Bruce will be scratching his head if the seasons starts the same way. Then he will have to go and we start again. 

But the players all semed more than capable of doing the basics at their former clubs. If they weren't then why did they cost a fortune? So what has changed?

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

But the players all semed more than capable of doing the basics at their former clubs. If they weren't then why did they cost a fortune? So what has changed?

That's what I don't understand. I've considered maybe pressure and different expectation has played a part. Confidence too. Or maybe they are just as not as good as it appeared when they were the best players in average teams.  

Mccormack and Hogan have shocked me the most. They both seem clueless.

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, delboy54 said:

Hi all

I didnt see any of the Shrewsbury game but it sounded like any of the games we played last year...hardly any shots on target etc...

I was able to see the Villa 10 times last year and apart from the very rare second or first half of a game where we actually looked good, the rest of it was pretty dire to be honest. In almost 50 years seeing Villa play,..... for the first time I walked out early during the Ipswich game home loss.....dreadful performance.

My concern is not really the players to be honest. Most of the "new" signings have proven themselves playing with other clubs. My concern is when SB says he "doesnt do tactics". Now if he is not involved with this side of the game them who is?

Arguably many will say tactics is overrated, its just a simple game. But many teams that we played last year were able to neutralise us and take advantage of our known weaknesses. So why are we not doing the same to these teams?

Coaching is I think the main issue, this is where the problem lies... Why are we not playing our players in their natural position? what is the point during these friendlies in experimenting by playing players in positions that they dont normally play in?  SB should be by now, fine tuning the "playing system", so that all players know their jobs and when injuries and suspensions come along then integrating replacements into a known (hopefully successful) system should be easy. It appears that we are far far away from this as possible. In fact I would say that tactics, team formation or style of play, call it what you want, we are no further forward in developing this than we were 9 months ago.

Rant over........Enjoy the Summer!

Regards to all

Del

Excellent post. I agree completely.

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

The thing for me isn't the tactics or lack of plan. It's the players inabilty to do the basics. Strikers not able to hold up the ball. Poor touches. lack of movement, poor passing and crossing. Just generally all round sloppy stuff. Now this during a season is not acceptable but during pre season you can put it down to fitness and lack of sharpness. 

I just don't get it and I bet even Bruce will be scratching his head if the seasons starts the same way. Then he will have to go and we start again. 

I refer you to deldoy54's excellent post. He has hit the nail on the head.

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I refer you to deldoy54's excellent post. He has hit the nail on the head.

It's hit the nail on the head in terms of tactics but doesn't explain why the quality is poor in terms of basics. I think this could be down to confidence and that could be an issue with the manager I admit. MON for all his faults could make a player play 10 times better than he actually was. 

[Grasshopper]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It's hit the nail on the head in terms of tactics but doesn't explain why the quality is poor in terms of basics. I think this could be down to confidence and that could be an issue with the manager I admit. MON for all his faults could make a player play 10 times better than he actually was. 

Therein lies your answer.

as limited and one dimensional MoN was, HE knew what he was doing and how to do it. Players knew what they were supposed to do as they were all picked for a role, a role they could understand and play.

Bruce has players set up and instructed to do what goes against their instincts. He doesnt play to players individual or specific strengths.

That simply cant and wont work.

He is expecting a majority of the picked 11 to adapt to his way as oppose to adapting his ways to utilise the talent he has at his disposal.

[Chicken Field]

I think for the first time in my life, I am actually enoying summer break and dreading the start of the season. I usually have some kind of optimism, not this year. If we have a succesfull season it will be all down to our defense, I can see us struggling getting to 50 goals again this season. Bruce needs to buy wingers, wingers will help all our strikers, put less pressure on our central midfielders. We haven't had decent wingers since Young and Downing. I feel like we have the players to play 3-5-2/5-3-2, but we certainly do not have the manager for this formation. Hopefully I am wrong and we actually do alright. 

I do not trust Bruce the slightest, but I am hoping I am wrong, but nothing so far has indicated that my lack of trust in him is unwarrented. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Therein lies your answer.

as limited and one dimensional MoN was, HE knew what he was doing and how to do it. Players knew what they were supposed to do as they were all picked for a role, a role they could understand and play.

Bruce has players set up and instructed to do what goes against their instincts. He doesnt play to players individual or specific strengths.

That simply cant and wont work.

He is expecting a majority of the picked 11 to adapt to his way as oppose to adapting his ways to utilise the talent he has at his disposal.

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

[DaveAV1]

15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

I guess everyone has their time, no matter what they do. Times change and I do feel there are much more progressive managers now at Championship level. Some of those managers have got promoted and managed to do a good job in the Premiership too. Eddie Howe and Sean Dyke spring to mind. Wagner has just got Huddersfield up on an considerably lower budget than we have spent. 

I know people will point at Wagner and say he had a poor first season but was given time. But I imagine that during that season he showed that he had a plan and was making progress, plus as a younger manager, with lower expectations he could be expected to be given time to develop. Surely SB has been in the job long enough now?

[Eastie]

Looking at the villa squad I'd expect any manager in the division would fancy their chances of promotion with those players - there is proven talent and ability there - up to Bruce to get the best from them - if he cannot then  someone else will get the chance.

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If all that regarding Bruce is true how on earth did he manage to get 4 promotions?

That is the million dollar question, you would have thought it difficult to fluke 4 promotions but I cannot see from how he sets us up how on earth he achieved it.

[bannedfromHandV]

Tin hat on as I know the Football Manager contingent will be affronted by this but I honestly don't value the importance of tactics as much as most, it seems.

 

As others have said, the issue is more that players seem unable to control fairly simple balls into feet and/or cannot seem to pass to a teammate just 10 yards away.

 

If this is due to a lack of tactics then all footballers must be absolute morons, which I know they are not.

[Ginko]

Disagree with the whole 'players getting the basics wrong' thing. I think that's more prevalent due to there being a lack of sharpness due to preseason and that will start to improve a little.

However, I do think the lack of tactics and playing to our player's strengths shackles them, makes them uncomfortable and destroys their confidence to the extent that the basics start to suffer.

It's worrying that these things are being swept under the rug. I really don't see Bruce improving on this and I think he'll be sacked early on in the season. I just hope it's not too late to mount an automatic promotion charge by that point and that this is realised and Tony starts looking for a manager who knows this stuff.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ginko

[TrentVilla]

20 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Tin hat on as I know the Football Manager contingent will be affronted by this but I honestly don't value the importance of tactics as much as most, it seems.

 

As others have said, the issue is more that players seem unable to control fairly simple balls into feet and/or cannot seem to pass to a teammate just 10 yards away.

 

If this is due to a lack of tactics then all footballers must be absolute morons, which I know they are not.

If this is the case then Bruce should go today as a significant number of the first team were signed by him.

[omariqy]

We have the players. They have all proven themselves elsewhere. In fact our big mantra last season was to sign players who had proven themselves at this level.  We have spent circa £40m on strikers. Plenty in midfield and defence. We have attacking players such as Lansbury, Hourihane, Grealish, Green, Adomah, Kodjia, McCormack and Hogan. This should be enough firepower to get any team in this league promoted. We just do not create enough. There is no license given to be expansive with our football. No runners off the ball. It is all very mediocre. We have Terry Chester and Jedinak. The rest should be given license to go and attack. Play fluid football. Sadly I don't think we will see this until Bruce goes.