macandally Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) The thing we have missed for years is tempo, we play so one paced that we are easy to close down and squeeze in possession and lack bite going forward. When we do win the ball higher up the pitch, we instantly turn back and pass backwards to consolidate possession. We need to be working on hunting the ball down in numbers then countering quickly and with purpose. I hate to say it, but I just do not believe any of our players, it is so lacklustre that you can only really blame the coaching. It's not hard to have a style of play and implement it. Edited July 16, 2017 by macandally 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Here is the crux for me. Bruce took over a team which lacked confidence and to many people were underachieving. I dare say his brief was play-offs and at the end of 2016 he wasn't far off...............then January happened and our chances of that went. He signed players to improve us in midfield and up front so we were obviously looking at getting them to gel into a team for this season. Now any manager of worth would at the same time start putting some kind of identity, his identity. Some style, formation whatever you will................I cannot see it and nether can some others. Some said give him the close season and to be fair that hasn't finished yet but it's still the same football, our midfield and strikers still look shadows of their former selves. There is still no sign of players having any understanding of each others game, still too big a gap between midfield and forwards so they are easy to defend against. Still a huge lack of movement which makes it worse. It's unlikely that you can win promotion by playing as conservatively as he sets us up for, even in a pre-season friendly against League 1 opposition. It would be good to see something more positive against Walsall but I just don't think we will. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I will say this with confidence. The way a team or players play during pre season matches - especially the first ones - is in no way indicative of the way they will play in competitive matches. If our 2nd pre season match has caused people to change their opinions on Bruce then they don't understand pre season matches. Lack of passing and moving? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. No cohesion in the team? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. Bruce defying everyone and playing Hutton and Richards at centre back? It's pre season etc etc. Whether we win every game 5-0 or lose every game 5-0 will not dictate how our season goes, the only game you can take anything from is the final one, and even that's a stretch. It's about getting the players some match fitness and getting them used to playing with each other. Tactical work etc will be being done on the training ground, and the matches are only there so the players are ready for a competitive 90 minute match in a few weeks time, some of the over analysis and jumping to conclusions after the last game is ridiculous 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, weedman said: I will say this with confidence. The way a team or players play during pre season matches - especially the first ones - is in no way indicative of the way they will play in competitive matches. If our 2nd pre season match has caused people to change their opinions on Bruce then they don't understand pre season matches. Lack of passing and moving? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. No cohesion in the team? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. Bruce defying everyone and playing Hutton and Richards at centre back? It's pre season etc etc. Whether we win every game 5-0 or lose every game 5-0 will not dictate how our season goes, the only game you can take anything from is the final one, and even that's a stretch. It's about getting the players some match fitness and getting them used to playing with each other. Tactical work etc will be being done on the training ground, and the matches are only there so the players are ready for a competitive 90 minute match in a few weeks time, some of the over analysis and jumping to conclusions after the last game is ridiculous will you still be saying the above "in confidence" when it all goes t*ts up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, weedman said: I will say this with confidence. The way a team or players play during pre season matches - especially the first ones - is in no way indicative of the way they will play in competitive matches. If our 2nd pre season match has caused people to change their opinions on Bruce then they don't understand pre season matches. Lack of passing and moving? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. No cohesion in the team? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. Bruce defying everyone and playing Hutton and Richards at centre back? It's pre season etc etc. Whether we win every game 5-0 or lose every game 5-0 will not dictate how our season goes, the only game you can take anything from is the final one, and even that's a stretch. It's about getting the players some match fitness and getting them used to playing with each other. Tactical work etc will be being done on the training ground, and the matches are only there so the players are ready for a competitive 90 minute match in a few weeks time, some of the over analysis and jumping to conclusions after the last game is ridiculous All of this would be of no concern if it wasn't for the fact that we looked exactly the same way for most of last season. I just think it's quite rare for a team to totally transform from Clark Kent to full on Superman at the flick of the switch when the season starts. Especially since the ball seem to be our Kryptonite. Edited July 16, 2017 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: will you still be saying the above "in confidence" when it all goes t*ts up? Yes. If it goes tits up next season it won't be because we didn't play well in our 2nd pre season game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, sne said: All of this would be of no concern if it wasn't for the fact that we looked exactly the same way for most of last season. I just think it's quite rare for a team to totally transform from Clark Kent to full on Superman at the flick of the switch when the season starts. Especially since the ball seem to be our Kryptonite. Again, the pre season game is of absolutely no consequence. Being worried about how we played last season and hoping it will change this season is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Cliffy Biro said: Two of those were over a decade ago now werent they? Its a very different time. Plus has he not been utterly useless and then sacked once hes actually got into the bigger division? And the most recent was literally only a year ago. As long as he gets us up by hook or crook then I don't mind. Once in the top league he will be giving his chance and then if he blows it we move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 41 minutes ago, weedman said: . Lack of passing and moving? It's pre season, their getting their fitness up. If they cant pass and move at this stage of their career,fit or not,i would suggest they take up brick laying for a career. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 On top of what others have said about pre-season, another thing to remember is that the players naturally won't be giving the same level of energy/urgency in pre-season as they would in real season. Another difference is that some players won't go flying into challenges for a game that means nothing. I'm not saying players will only give 50%, but you're less likely to see a player busting a gut to track back, in the way that they would when the game actually means something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, sne said: All of this would be of no concern if it wasn't for the fact that we looked exactly the same way for most of last season. I just think it's quite rare for a team to totally transform from Clark Kent to full on Superman at the flick of the switch when the season starts. Especially since the ball seem to be our Kryptonite. Logically, in pre season we should be performing much worse than in the actual season. With this in mind, if we're as bad now in pre-season as we were last season during the actual season, we 're heading in the right direction. Because it's pre-**** season!! Not even we could fail to improve on pre-season games. Edited July 16, 2017 by praisedmambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 minute ago, praisedmambo said: Logically, in pre season we should be performing much worse than in the actual season. With this in mind, if we're as bad as we were last season during the actual season, we 're heading in the right direction. Because it's pre-**** season!! Sure, sure.. It was against League 1 opposition thou, and they are also in pre season. The point wasn't that we lost, but that there still are no signs of progress. And it isn't about this game in isolation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Nobody is expecting anyone to bust a gut, fly into tackles or be at peak fitness. What people are expecting to see is some idea of how the team is expecting to set up and with a style of play. Within that there will be some experimentation and swapping and changing players and some getting game time to gain fitness. But we're not seeing any change from the way we played last season and we don't look like we're trying things out, we look like we're throwing shite at the wall and seeing if any of it sticks. We were clueless last season and we're still clueless now. The clock is ticking and we are looking forward with our fingers crossed and hope, rather than a plan and any real expectation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 22:13, terrytini said: Because I still think Bruce is a good Manager who will change his approach and get us up. Based on what ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Nobody is expecting anyone to bust a gut, fly into tackles or be at peak fitness. What people are expecting to see is some idea of how the team is expecting to set up and with a style of play. Within that there will be some experimentation and swapping and changing players and some getting game time to gain fitness. But we're not seeing any change from the way we played last season and we don't look like we're trying things out, we look like we're throwing shite at the wall and seeing if any of it sticks. We were clueless last season and we're still clueless now. The clock is ticking and we are looking forward with our fingers crossed and hope, rather than a plan and any real expectation. Best post ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: Based on what ? Ha ha - I spend half the time people telling me I hate Bruce and the other half defending him !! Fair question though - simple answer too - based on his history. I simply can't bring myself to believe that he can't see what is staring him in the face regarding his approach, and I don't think he's stupid, so I think he will change it and because we have good players it'll all be ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 hours ago, macandally said: The thing we have missed for years is tempo, we play so one paced that we are easy to close down and squeeze in possession and lack bite going forward. When we do win the ball higher up the pitch, we instantly turn back and pass backwards to consolidate possession. We need to be working on hunting the ball down in numbers then countering quickly and with purpose. I hate to say it, but I just do not believe any of our players, it is so lacklustre that you can only really blame the coaching. It's not hard to have a style of play and implement it. I keep going back to that Brentford game when they slaughtered us but the difference in coaching from Bruce and Smith was night and day . When they had the ball they're movement was excellent, everything on the floor with the ball, so much energy and the sheer savagery they hunted us with when they didn't have the ball. Think this job will be vacant in October / November time and Smith, not just based on that game, has to be given serious consideration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Nobody is expecting anyone to bust a gut, fly into tackles or be at peak fitness. What people are expecting to see is some idea of how the team is expecting to set up and with a style of play. Within that there will be some experimentation and swapping and changing players and some getting game time to gain fitness. But we're not seeing any change from the way we played last season and we don't look like we're trying things out, we look like we're throwing shite at the wall and seeing if any of it sticks. We were clueless last season and we're still clueless now. The clock is ticking and we are looking forward with our fingers crossed and hope, rather than a plan and any real expectation. Dead right. It's odd, how Kidderminster were trying things , same as us. So were Shrewsbury. And both looked like they had inferior quality players. Which is backed up by respective Leagues. Yet both liked more clued up on who was supposed to do what, both had far less gap between midfield and front players, both had runners going past the front men. Very Odd. The only thing I would say is it did look like it meant a bit more to those teams, which is understandable playing us...............so that might account for a bit............but not for much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: Ha ha - I spend half the time people telling me I hate Bruce and the other half defending him !! Fair question though - simple answer too - based on his history. I simply can't bring myself to believe that he can't see what is staring him in the face regarding his approach, and I don't think he's stupid, so I think he will change it and because we have good players it'll all be ok. You think he'll change it. I think you want to believe he'll change it. Hand on heart you can't say with confidence that he will. He has implemented nothing in terms of style, structure. Absolute myth that he made us defensively better last season. We conceded as many and with the same clumsiness as when RDM was there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, terrytini said: Ha ha - I spend half the time people telling me I hate Bruce and the other half defending him !! Fair question though - simple answer too - based on his history. I simply can't bring myself to believe that he can't see what is staring him in the face regarding his approach, and I don't think he's stupid, so I think he will change it and because we have good players it'll all be ok. I'd really like to agree with this. Then again going by this logic, surely he must've realized these problems with his approach ages ago. Therefore I have severe difficulty understanding how come he didn't look to fix it already at the latter stages of last season? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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