Steve Bruce

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

..I think i am out of my depth watching these games as they are possibly misleading.

I've got a horrible feeling Steve Bruce is in the same boat 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I wasn't talking about yesterday, Inwas talking about the entire second half of last season.

Thats gone there are umpteen reasons for last season and all that goes with it, we were in rebuild......and lost our 2 most influential players for a long period, we were not resourceful enough to be able to dismiss that, it had a major effect on us.

..but equally there was some good results too, lets not forget that.

back to yesterday.

i think the reason for the adverse comments after the shrewsbury game is that most on here thought some of the bad habits of last season would be banished to the archives, but they were still prevalent and that has concerned us.

However,Steve Bruce and his coaches will not have been blind to that and if they are JT will soon tell them.

Bookmakers rarely get it wrong.

 

 

[Grasshopper]

The sad reality is that more than likely Bruce will scrape through games untill he's sacked.

This could be Xmas, October, 10/11 games or after Bristol away.

Then Wyness & Round will go for Moyes and we'll be well & truly F******

Going back in time, Hindsight I know, but I wanted Bruce sacked after Cardiff latest after Brentford. Imagine the time we would have had to write off this season and use the oppertunity looking for Mr Right from a significantly larger pool of possible candidates over a longer period of time?

Going further back in time, Imagine what could have been under Bernstein & King?

We go into THEE most important season of our history since division 3. The consequences of failure are far too great to contemplate.

We have a 1st 11 and a few subs the envy if any club in the history of the 2nd teer.

However, we also have a manager & coaching staff prepared to deliver "more of the same" from a season that failed. Appointed by a board (Wyness & Round's recommendation via algorhythym hoofball 90mins+ injurytime.) that appear to not have the balls to hold their hands up and say "its not working - we need a change"

A crystal ball is one thing.

Having the Balls to do something about it is another

[Tomaszk]

14 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

The sad reality is that more than likely Bruce will scrape through games untill he's sacked.

This could be Xmas, October, 10/11 games or after Bristol away.

Then Wyness & Round will go for Moyes and we'll be well & truly F******

Oh dear

Can see it happening.

Would happily see Bruce go now. Would happily see him go the day before the season starts. 

Feel sorry for Tone.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

If he can't trap a bag of cement then I question why the manager signed him or continues to play him. 

If he used to be able to do it and now can't, then I question the system and style, is that helping get the best out of the player. 

If it's down to a lack of confidence well that's an important part of a managers job. 

To simply say there's nothing he can do and it's not his fault makes me question why we even need a high profile manager. Anyone with a bit of experience in the game could pick 11 players and then take no responsibility for the outcome. 

 

• who has said there is nothing he can do, carte blanche, as you imply, I am simply saying some of the things are down to the player, thats why he is playing these games to see who can do what.....isn't that what pre-season is who to retain and who not to......especially as he has to cull a bloated squad.
• I have said many times the buck ultimately stops with the manager, the reason players come and go is because managers cannot get them to do what they want them to do and that takes time and financial liquidity complete ( if it ever is completed, I guess its rolling)
• So are you saying IF he could trap a ball once and now can't......thats down to the system and style of play.......is that what you are saying?
• Your last line is a clear indication to me you do not understand in whats being said.

DC i am happy for you disagree with me, but please don't misconstrue what I am saying......Its like me saying that everything that goes wrong with our play you say its the managers fault.

 

[TrentVilla]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats gone there are umpteen reasons for last season and all that goes with it, we were in rebuild......and lost our 2 most influential players for a long period, we were not resourceful enough to be able to dismiss that, it had a major effect on us.

..but equally there was some good results too, lets not forget that.

back to yesterday.

i think the reason for the adverse comments after the shrewsbury game is that most on here thought some of the bad habits of last season would be banished to the archives, but they were still prevalent and that has concerned us.

However,Steve Bruce and his coaches will not have been blind to that and if they are JT will soon tell them.

Bookmakers rarely get it wrong.

Last season may have finished but the memory of the deficiencies in our play haven't faded especially when we get a reminder in pre season.

It is only pre season and too much shouldn't be made of it but neither should the issues of last season be forgotten about and dismissed.

People are right to be concerned that old bad habits still exist. It is hard to see why they are likely to change moving forward if they've not done by now.

As for the bookies, odds reflect punters actions not the just the perceived likelihood of an event or outcome. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Ginko said:

I think most of us realise it's a preseason friendly and you should take those performances with a pinch of salt.

However, watching yesterday's game was like watching most of last season. We had some possession and passed it about the back nicely enough at times, but there's a severe lack of chances. I don't mean goals, though of course that's also true, I mean goal threats and attempts. With the players we have we should be carving teams open and always on the offensive. But we're not. We look clueless and that's down to tactics and training. 

Yes, it was a friendly and mainly for fitness, but it's just like he's trying the same things over and over again hoping they'll eventually click and they just aren't. There's no excuse for that kind of stubbornness. We can see it, why can't they?

I don't think he'll last three months personally, and nor should he if that's all he can serve up, and I can't see it improving anytime soon. I just hope Tony and co. have plans in place, though obviously looking at other managers when you already have one isn't exactly inspiring for the current incumbent.

We agree on one thing..... it was poor.

I simply do not share your view its down to tactics and training in the context you put it.

let me explain:

If you do not have the player to play the role you want, it will affect your tactics.

If you ask a player to play a function and he is poor at it i.e constantly giving the ball away.....it will affect your tactics

I am simply saying that I do not believe Steve Bruce doesn't know what he is doing

If you are saying Steve Bruce has not got the specialist players to play the way he wants and that is partly down to him.....I would have to agree.

 

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I've got a horrible feeling Steve Bruce is in the same boat 

nah!

[osmark86]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

I think it will come good too but I must admit I'm less confident after seeing yesterday's shambles - albeit a pre season friendly but there were many doubts watching it .

 

Yes, this is how I feel as well. 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Last season may have finished but the memory of the deficiencies in our play haven't faded especially when we get a reminder in pre season.

It is only pre season and too much shouldn't be made of it but neither should the issues of last season be forgotten about and dismissed.

People are right to be concerned that old bad habits still exist. It is hard to see why they are likely to change moving forward if they've not done by now.

As for the bookies, odds reflect punters actions not the just the perceived likelihood of an event or outcome. 

I agree

and I am not applying blind faith Trent......but changes take time.

We all know what last season was about and we could all write reams on it......equally, I am not unconditionally defending Steve Bruce, but we have had a few shots at Replacing O'Neill. Its either we keep getting it wrong or something is going to take a long time to fix.....not sure.

Were all the other managers clueless as some put it too?

I am not coming on here professing to know the answers......I am merely trying to put a balanced and composed view forward. I see a danger in keep changing managers, I really do.

I was as dispirited as the next man watching yesterdays game.....but I have elected to question my own understanding of what I saw......it was a training session and i am not qualified or experienced in appraising one.

I am a football supporter not a training expert.

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

The sad reality is that more than likely Bruce will scrape through games untill he's sacked.

This could be Xmas, October, 10/11 games or after Bristol away.

Then Wyness & Round will go for Moyes and we'll be well & truly F******

Going back in time, Hindsight I know, but I wanted Bruce sacked after Cardiff latest after Brentford. Imagine the time we would have had to write off this season and use the oppertunity looking for Mr Right from a significantly larger pool of possible candidates over a longer period of time?

Going further back in time, Imagine what could have been under Bernstein & King?

We go into THEE most important season of our history since division 3. The consequences of failure are far too great to contemplate.

We have a 1st 11 and a few subs the envy if any club in the history of the 2nd teer.

However, we also have a manager & coaching staff prepared to deliver "more of the same" from a season that failed. Appointed by a board (Wyness & Round's recommendation via algorhythym hoofball 90mins+ injurytime.) that appear to not have the balls to hold their hands up and say "its not working - we need a change"

A crystal ball is one thing.

Having the Balls to do something about it is another

2 things

1. That is presuming they agree with you

2.Who is this manager you are anxious for them to get to replace Bruce?

[DCJonah]

41 minutes ago, TRO said:

• who has said there is nothing he can do, carte blanche, as you imply, I am simply saying some of the things are down to the player, thats why he is playing these games to see who can do what.....isn't that what pre-season is who to retain and who not to......especially as he has to cull a bloated squad.
• I have said many times the buck ultimately stops with the manager, the reason players come and go is because managers cannot get them to do what they want them to do and that takes time and financial liquidity complete ( if it ever is completed, I guess its rolling)
• So are you saying IF he could trap a ball once and now can't......thats down to the system and style of play.......is that what you are saying?
• Your last line is a clear indication to me you do not understand in whats being said.

DC i am happy for you disagree with me, but please don't misconstrue what I am saying......Its like me saying that everything that goes wrong with our play you say its the managers fault.

 

You said 

"If you can't trap a bag of cement.....how on earth can that be the managers fault?

please explain?"

So I explained. 

I didn't misconstrue anything you said, it's right there. 

If a player was comfortable before and isn't now then yes I think the style of play and system could be a reason. See Scott Hogan as an example (even though I blame him partly as well) 

[Grasshopper]

Just now, TRO said:

2 things

1. That is presuming they agree with you

2.Who is this manager you are anxious for them to get to replace Bruce?

You didnt get the intention of my post

1 Whether they agree is by the by, simply because a continuation of last season WILL result in only 1 outcome. The SACK! when is circumstatial.

2 My point was that once the pre-season started, season starts, first international break, October, Xmas or whenever the sacking comes, the pool of possible manager candidates will be smaller and to "save the season" we'll have less & less time to 1 appoint 2 manager to work on whats wrong and 3 to see the fruits of the new managers work (positive or negative)

I fail to see the logic - if its not working keep trying - instead of trying something different.

In other words

My 9iron only gets me 130mtrs but its 140 to the green & 150 to the flag.

I can try 100 times for a God-like shot to get there (even though you only get 1 chance) , or simply try an 8 or 7iron. I still may not get there, but with a 9iron I never will.

[Junxs]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

• who has said there is nothing he can do, carte blanche, as you imply, I am simply saying some of the things are down to the player, thats why he is playing these games to see who can do what.....isn't that what pre-season is who to retain and who not to......especially as he has to cull a bloated squad.
• I have said many times the buck ultimately stops with the manager, the reason players come and go is because managers cannot get them to do what they want them to do and that takes time and financial liquidity complete ( if it ever is completed, I guess its rolling)
• So are you saying IF he could trap a ball once and now can't......thats down to the system and style of play.......is that what you are saying?
• Your last line is a clear indication to me you do not understand in whats being said.

DC i am happy for you disagree with me, but please don't misconstrue what I am saying......Its like me saying that everything that goes wrong with our play you say its the managers fault.

 

Disagree, Bruce has been here 9 months and the only new face over the summer is John Terry who you can argue he already knows everything about him. If he hasnt managed to work out "who can do what" by now, then surely he's not up to the task.

As for your trapping a ball comment, what are you going on about? I haven't seen anyone not being able to trap a ball can you point to examples? It seems you just want to make excuses for Bruce and take blame away from him and onto the players. Its blatantly down to tactics being deployed by the manager. How can a midfield duo that play so freely suddenly find themselves always sitting so deep otherwise. Watching the games it seems they've been instructed not to leave the defence vulnerable and to cover for Alan Hutton when he goes on his forward runs.  

Theres absolutely no way midfielders who like to get forward at previous clubs would sit back so deep if they were not instructed to do so. Bruce simply has a style of play which is defensive first, smash and grab tactics. He's a manager who has spent a career being the under dog and doesnt know how to play any other way.

I wasnt against the appointment and thought it may be just what we needed, but after those 9 games picking up 2 points from 27 in January / February an the constant negative football I started to realise he wasnt the man for us, should have gone end of the season.  

[TRO]

•  

8 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Disagree, Bruce has been here 9 months and the only new face over the summer is John Terry who you can argue he already knows everything about him. If he hasnt managed to work out "who can do what" by now, then surely he's not up to the task.

As for your trapping a ball comment, what are you going on about? I haven't seen anyone not being able to trap a ball can you point to examples? It seems you just want to make excuses for Bruce and take blame away from him and onto the players. Its blatantly down to tactics being deployed by the manager. How can a midfield duo that play so freely suddenly find themselves always sitting so deep otherwise. Watching the games it seems they've been instructed not to leave the defence vulnerable and to cover for Alan Hutton when he goes on his forward runs.  

Theres absolutely no way midfielders who like to get forward at previous clubs would sit back so deep if they were not instructed to do so. Bruce simply has a style of play which is defensive first, smash and grab tactics. He's a manager who has spent a career being the under dog and doesnt know how to play any other way.

I wasnt against the appointment and thought it may be just what we needed, but after those 9 games picking up 2 points from 27 in January / February an the constant negative football I started to realise he wasnt the man for us, should have gone end of the season.  

• well the game i watched most of them struggled to keep possession of the ball it was literally bouncing of them particularly in the middle of the park.
• On Steve Bruce i will have to say.......wait and see, because neither of us can produce a conclusive prediction on how the season will go.
• so you don't think he wants to have another look at McCormack or Tshibola or try permutations with John Terry in the side.?

Edited July 16, 2017 by TRO

[a m ole]

56 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 As for the bookies, odds reflect punters actions not the just the perceived likelihood of an event or outcome. 

Only for situations where they need to protect against lack of or fast changing information i.e transfer and manager markets, surely?

If someone lumps a billion on Huddersfield to win the league they don't decrease the odds or suspend the market like they would for a new manager.

Edited July 16, 2017 by a m ole

[Junxs]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

•  

• well the game i watched most of them struggled to keep possession of the ball it was literally bouncing of them particularly in the middle of the park.
• On Steve Bruce i will have to say.......wait and see, because neither of us can produce a conclusive prediction on how the season will go.
• so you don't think he wants to have another look at McCormack or Tshibola or try permutations with John Terry in the side.?

I'm not sure which game you are referring to, but everyone has a bad game technically now and again. However you are making it out as if their basic skills have deserted them for the past whole season and implying Bruce has rubbish players who cant do the basics. We have by far the strongest squad which all other clubs in this league would love to have, and they are doing far better with far less technical players.

He had McC and Tsh and HE alone decided to send them away on loan, AFTER having them for a few months already.. so they are not new players he knows nothing about.

It seems you have an excuse for everything, how long do you want to wait and see? I waited and saw last season which was along with McLeish by far the worst football I've ever witnessed at Villa since I started watching in 86/87  - I dont want to "wait and see" anymore of this rubbish. I gave him the summer to see if he would bring in any creative players but he's choosing to solidify the defensive side instead. 

[Ginko]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We agree on one thing..... it was poor.

I simply do not share your view its down to tactics and training in the context you put it.

let me explain:

If you do not have the player to play the role you want, it will affect your tactics.

If you ask a player to play a function and he is poor at it i.e constantly giving the ball away.....it will affect your tactics

I am simply saying that I do not believe Steve Bruce doesn't know what he is doing

If you are saying Steve Bruce has not got the specialist players to play the way he wants and that is partly down to him.....I would have to agree.

 

I understand your opinion and you may be right, but I think it's more a case of Bruce not setting the players up to play to their strengths whereas I feel you think it's more the players not working hard enough to implement his tactics.

It's probably closer to somewhere in the middle, but it's up to Bruce to fix things when they're not working and to try and get the best out of what he has. Bruce is also responsible for buying a number of these players, so if they're not right for his style of play, that's also on him.

For those reasons I feel he's most responsible and therefore he should go. I also think we have a more than decent squad that could do very well under a manager with a lick of tactical nous and common sense.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Ginko

[skarroki]

People on here saying that nothing has changed but this season under Bruce we haven't conceded after being in the lead all season! That's a huge improvement. 

Also, you can say what you like about the style of football but you have to hand it to Bruce, sitting top of the table all month so far and i can't see anyone overtaking us until mid-August at the earliest

[DaveAV1]

38 minutes ago, Junxs said:

solidify

Now there's a word that sums up our forward movement in one.