Steve Bruce

[TRO]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

He inherited a decent Championship squad but a poor team. It's his job to make the squad into a good team, I'm afraid he hasn't done that. 

One window Dave and Jan just to make it worse......come on Dave.

[TRO]

I think one of the things that has got up our noses is the form of Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan.

we all thought they would perform better.....me included.

I have no idea, why they haven't given us better.....i can only speculate like most.

I can count many players in the past that we have thought that was going to pull trees up.....and they Haven't......sasa curcic anybody......oh lots of us wanted him.I watched Brian Little get slaughtered for signing him at a tuesday night sports forum ......I got up and challenged the whole audience....." who would not have signed him, not one voice......Brian Little actually said thanks.....but my point is they don't always turn out.its easy when you don't have to make the call and how do we know its just them that are wholly responsible for the nomination.

How do we know the players around them at their previous clubs may have been more instrumental in their success than we are prepared to consider.

There are so many unanswered questions before we roll out the guillotine.

[macandally]

2 hours ago, Nigel said:

Remember when it was houghton .....then Wagner...then monk....

Would this be a different manager if Fulham were not the leagues form team?

what if he goes on a massive losing run next year...do we stick with him, or move to the next flash in the pan?

when do we actually give a manager a decent chance when things are not rosey...Jokanovic...the next one ....the one after that?

 

Not quite a flash in the pan is he?  Won two doubles with Partizan, one some Asian League at the first attempt, took Watford up and got Fulham playing good football and competing after being in the relegation places last year.  But the point you are missing is that he has implemented a style of play and identity in that team, something Bruce has shown no sign of doing.   So have Monk and Wagner!

I am fed up of hearing that it will take years to fix "broken" Aston Villa, its crap.  Wagner and Jokanovic took relegation threatened teams and took them both to play offs in one season.  Monk took over a laughing stock in Leeds and got them up there, thereabouts.  None of those Managers spent big bucks, they just bought players to match their style of play.

Can you hand on heart say Bruce has?  I don't see how he could have, we have no style to match players to!

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by macandally

[DaveAV1]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

One window Dave and Jan just to make it worse......come on Dave.

The point is TRO he has bought players which definitely on paper improve the squad, but we still don't look like a team that knows what it is trying to achieve. He's not using the squad he has effectively. In my ever so humble opinion you understand. 

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think one of the things that has got up our noses is the form of Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan.

we all thought they would perform better.....me included.

I have no idea, why they haven't given us better.....i can only speculate like most.

because Bruce "tactics" dont allow them to shine

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Thats subjective I'm afraid Dave.

I understand what turgid stuff you are referring too.....but the conceding goals has got better in the main....so no progress, is not strickly true Imo.

To be objective then, we conceded 12 goals in 11 games under RDM and we've conceded 35 goals in 34 games under SB, so that's an extremely negligible improvement. It's a myth that he's improved us defensively and made us hard to beat. 

[theboyangel]

If we're to retain Steve Bruce, the club need to address what is happening on the training pitches and why it is failing during matches.

Bruce clearly needs help within the coaching set up and I'd like us to bring in a more attack or tactically progressive minded coach into the club. 

I've never been enamoured with him as manager and thought his time should have been over after the disaster that was Jan/Feb but the club have stuck by him (with an improvement in results but not style) so will have to support him.

Whilst ordinarily that would suggest new players, I believe new coaches are just as important if we're to be promoted next season.

We cannot continue with this brand of football.

 

[sne]

45 minutes ago, theboyangel said:

If we're to retain Steve Bruce, the club need to address what is happening on the training pitches and why it is failing during matches.

Bruce clearly needs help within the coaching set up and I'd like us to bring in a more attack or tactically progressive minded coach into the club. 

I've never been enamoured with him as manager and thought his time should have been over after the disaster that was Jan/Feb but the club have stuck by him (with an improvement in results but not style) so will have to support him.

Whilst ordinarily that would suggest new players, I believe new coaches are just as important if we're to be promoted next season.

We cannot continue with this brand of football.

 

Agreed, but at that point it's getting close to having "the talk" with Bruce to ask the question:

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think one of the things that has got up our noses is the form of Hourihane, Lansbury and Hogan.

we all thought they would perform better.....me included.

I have no idea, why they haven't given us better.....i can only speculate like most.

I can count many players in the past that we have thought that was going to pull trees up.....and they Haven't......sasa curcic anybody......oh lots of us wanted him.I watched Brian Little get slaughtered for signing him at a tuesday night sports forum ......I got up and challenged the whole audience....." who would not have signed him, not one voice......Brian Little actually said thanks.....but my point is they don't always turn out.its easy when you don't have to make the call and how do we know its just them that are wholly responsible for the nomination.

How do we know the players around them at their previous clubs may have been more instrumental in their success than we are prepared to consider.

There are so many unanswered questions before we roll out the guillotine.

Surely any manager worth his salt , should have the nous to find a way to accommodate these players and play to a style that compliments their strengths.  It's, crazy to suggest that the players are being asked to play in a way contrary to what we are seeing . That situation is even more alarming . Why would players ,who at their previous clubs, played a pass and move brand of football , suddenly have difficulty grasping the concept ?

[flashingqwerty]

I have never been a fan of SB even when we were on that great run.

I dont think his style of play and his ethos match in any way the players he signed in january and this i think is the issue with our issues on the pitch.

SB doesnt set teams out to play good football and be attacking and/or creative. He builds teams with guts and determination with limited ability to be solid and graft.

Lansbury and Hourihan are not those things - they are footballers who play pass and move attacking and creative football. I winder whether SB chose these players or someone else did and now SB is trying to make it work but doesnt know how to.

I think a different manager with a different style could get a lot more from this squad than SB is currently managing to do.

[Guest av1]

10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

The point is TRO he has bought players which definitely on paper improve the squad, but we still don't look like a team that knows what it is trying to achieve. He's not using the squad he has effectively. In my ever so humble opinion you understand. 

This is the crux of it for me, and why I'm beginning to change my stance on Bruce. 

He says we need 3/4 additions (which I'd agree with), but he bought quality additions in January and they all look lost (Taylor aside). 

So is adding another 3/4 players going to change anything? He talks about the need to hold onto the ball, but then sets up a midfield to sit 40 yards behind a lone striker. And when players like Hourihane and Lansbury look lost in these set ups, he decides that the answer is to drop them for Leandro Bacuna.   

Let not forget also that the bloke has had 33 games, nearly a full PL season, with resources that most managers in this league could only dream of. 

The squad does need strengthening, but more pressing imo is the coaching team, because unless Bruce changes his style, no amount of "quality" additions will make a difference. 

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

 

So is adding another 3/4 players going to change anything? He talks about the need to hold onto the ball, but then sets up a midfield to sit 40 yards behind a lone striker. And when players like Hourihane and Lansbury look lost in these set ups, he decides that the answer is to drop them for Leandro Bacuna.   

The squad does need strengthening, but more pressing imo is the coaching team, because unless Bruce changes his style, no amount of "quality" additions will make a difference. 

100% this I've been saying it since his second game and nothing has changed. Absolutely staggered that there remain a few - including Bruce - who seem to think the problem lies elsewhere.

[terrytini]

Somewhat like an alcoholic, wakes up every morning with a hangover and blames the beer.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

The point is TRO he has bought players which definitely on paper improve the squad, but we still don't look like a team that knows what it is trying to achieve. He's not using the squad he has effectively. In my ever so humble opinion you understand. 

I understand your point entirely.....on paper is just what it is.....How many players over the years have fallen in to the " on paper" category.....only for us to find out they wasn't as good as WE thought they was.

Listen, I am not saying he is blameless.....but he has to have time to sort it.

[PaulC]

Normally though Tro is just the odd signing that doesn't work out but not nearly every signing. I don't know why this is but ultimately he is responsible. He talks about mentality but he is suppose to install that strength and belief in players. He is very open and honest in his interviews which may be good for us but bad for the players. I don't know but its not working! and does Xia really want to trust him with a load more money. He has to get more out of the ones he has signed and not rely so much on the ones that were signed  in the RDM era to prove he is the right man for the job for me and its too late now

Edited May 2, 2017 by PaulC

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I understand your point entirely.....on paper is just what it is.....How many players over the years have fallen in to the " on paper" category.....only for us to find out they wasn't as good as WE thought they was.

Listen, I am not saying he is blameless.....but he has to have time to sort it.

Are you confident?  I mean, I agree with the time point... but I'm just not confident.  We should be a much better team than we are.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I understand your point entirely.....on paper is just what it is.....How many players over the years have fallen in to the " on paper" category.....only for us to find out they wasn't as good as WE thought they was.

Listen, I am not saying he is blameless.....but he has to have time to sort it.

But he also needs to show something to indicate more time is worth giving. No one expects the finished article, but there should be signs to suggest more time will lead to the results we want. 

There's really nothing to show more time will mean better. 

[vreitti]

4 hours ago, av1 said:

So is adding another 3/4 players going to change anything? He talks about the need to hold onto the ball, but then sets up a midfield to sit 40 yards behind a lone striker. And when players like Hourihane and Lansbury look lost in these set ups, he decides that the answer is to drop them for Leandro Bacuna.

This says it all really. 

[TheStagMan]

That's the thing for me.... if we were showing signs of improvement I would say more time is reasonable, but we have seen nothing to suggest that the football is getting better (generally, good football = good results) which is the crux of it. Yes, we are not in free fall any more, but I don't see anything to give me confidence that we know what we are doing. The plan seems to be "buy the best players and hope for the best". That hasn't worked. 

I still don't think that Steve Bruce knows what our best team or formation is - AFTER 33 GAMES!!!!!!!

I don't want to go chopping and changing managers again as it really hasn't worked the last 5 times and Yes, stability is the key, but the stability we are looking at right now is mid table championship team.... Not good enough.

I think someone earlier said we have been so shit for so long that our expectations are much lower, well they are too low. We will not get back to the premier league playing like we are, and we need to get back there quickly, the longer we stay down here the harder it will be to get back.

Despite his record of promotions, Bruce has not shown anything that makes me thimk he can do it here. I hope i am wrong.

 

But as others have said....if he goes I won't bat an eyelid, I just hope that if he does it is as part of a plan, and not another month of uncertainty whilst we scratch around for a candidate and then hire Dwight Yorke.

[Villarocker]

The only thing that I can think of is that we need new backroom staff. We brought Calderwood in from Brighton and they have not been affected by it in any way. Our coaches are simply not getting through to the players and you cannot just accept that Hourihane and Lansbury have stopped trying since they left their previous clubs. Both are quality players at this level but look like imposters for us so surely it has to be something to do with the way they are being coached?

I would not give Bruce the first ten games next season - I would give him just 6. That still leaves the new guy 40 games to get 80 points, which is pretty much what's needed for the play-offs and should be achievable with that amount of games left. I believe in continuity but not just for the sake of it - there has to be a reason behind it. It's getting difficult to find reasons to back him with performances getting seemingly worse. In fact, you could argue that he should have bought cover for Jedinak in the January transfer window and maybe that bad run wouldn't have been so bad? He needs to look at his backroom staff and get tough with them otherwise he's going to lose his job!