Steve Bruce

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Well we don't know it hasn't, there is more than one way to skin a cat, just ask the Hull owners......

True

[TRO]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

So the narrative that Bruce has made us hard to beat, rolled out by you as defence of the manager is incorrect and is more down to Jedinak back from injury. Hourihane and Lansbury both sitting back further than they did at their previous club is nothing to do with how the manager sets us up and playing to instruction when in fact he wants them to replicate their form previously signing for us but they cannot or will not.............not for me I am afraid.

food for thought.

[DCJonah]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

and just about every villa fan I would imagine........thinks its strange.

I think its just as strange to find seasoned professionals unable to carry out the basics......coaches, coach that should not include the basics.....its a given.

If a player hasn't got the basics, they shouldn't be at the football club.

But these players seemed to be capable of it just weeks before joining Bruce. Hogan seemed to score goals for fun before Bruce, now barely touches the ball. 

 

[VillanousOne]

Disclaimer but I remember when Sherwood took over and some players commented that finally they were played the way they should be in the formation everyone wanted to play. Now yes I know it didn't work out and he's a cockney berk, but right now I wonder if Bruce left some of these players would breathe a collective sign of relief at being able to play in a way that isn't all about 'try not to lose.'

It is conjecture and opinion but the way I see our players playing at the moment, is they do not know what they are doing or why they are doing it, they are not behind the formation and way they are being told to play.

I could be completely wrong, in fact I hope I am, but for some many players not to turn up and be utterly useless at once, something somewhere is badly wrong.

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But these players seemed to be capable of it just weeks before joining Bruce. Hogan seemed to score goals for fun before Bruce, now barely touches the ball. 

 

shows the journalists, don't ask the right questions.

[TRO]

On 5/2/2017 at 22:44, VillanousOne said:

Disclaimer but I remember when Sherwood took over and some players commented that finally they were played the way they should be in the formation everyone wanted to play. Now yes I know it didn't work out and he's a cockney berk, but right now I wonder if Bruce left some of these players would breathe a collective sign of relief at being able to play in a way that isn't all about 'try not to lose.'

It is conjecture and opinion but the way I see our players playing at the moment, is they do not know what they are doing or why they are doing it, they are not behind the formation and way they are being told to play.

I could be completely wrong, in fact I hope I am, but for some many players not to turn up and be utterly useless at once, something somewhere is badly wrong.

best to sit outside BMH with a placard that reads......" is it him or is it you, that has us playing like a bag of poo!.....beep your horn if its him"

Edited May 3, 2017 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

As well as Kodjia's injury being a big blow as he's the only man who get near the goal - there's Bruce's excuse for a crap start next season.

Gutting.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I'd say it also makes no sense that professional footballers who have been coached since the age of around 5 years old, aren't able to follow basic instructions if their manager is asking them and criticising them in the press after games. 

Like said above, we're not looking at complex tactical decisions. Stop hoofing the ball, play further up the pitch. If these players are behind the manager and can't follow simple instructions then I'm amazed they've reached the level they have. 

Lansbury and Hourihane seemed to be able to play differently just weeks before being signed by Bruce. Yet now they can't. That seems strange to me. 

If only it were as simple as just the manager saying it and the players doing it. 

Every team in the world would play like Pep's Barcelona.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

If only it were as simple as just the manager saying it and the players doing it. 

Every team in the world would play like Pep's Barcelona.

Well no that's different, telling a team to play like Peps Barcelona would require players of that standard to match it, however teams could still try and play the same way with it not getting the exact same results. That's down to talent. That would be players following managers instructions but not always successfully implementing it correctly or making errors due to them not being good enough. 

We're talking about the simple difference of passing on the floor and hoofing it forward. Or a midfield player sitting in his own half rather than playing in an advanced position. 

Like I said, it seems strange that these professionals can't do basic things that the manager wants from them. 

Now if we were attempting to pass the ball more, if we saw our midfield players make attacking runs and we saw a more progressive style being attempted but it wasn't always working, that would then indicate it's down to the players following instructions and not being good enough to implement it perfectly. But if we're honest we aren't seeing that. 

[flashingqwerty]

I think the players are carrying out instructions given to them by the manager but in most cases the instructions dont play to the players strengths so the player doesnt meet the managers expections.

I firmly believe ( as bruce has a history of playing negative football) that he is asking the likes of lansbury and hourihane to sit deeper and protect.

The problem is that isnt what they are good at so they cant meet the managers request because hes effectively playing them out of position.

One of the reasons Taylor is doing ok - he is a defensive left fullback which suits bruces style. Lansbury and hourihane at attacking creative forward looking progressive players being asked to sit back keep it tight and tackle. Complete waste of talent.

[flashingqwerty]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

Well no that's different, telling a team to play like Peps Barcelona would require players of that standard to match it, however teams could still try and play the same way with it not getting the exact same results. That's down to talent. That would be players following managers instructions but not always successfully implementing it correctly or making errors due to them not being good enough. 

We're talking about the simple difference of passing on the floor and hoofing it forward. Or a midfield player sitting in his own half rather than playing in an advanced position. 

Like I said, it seems strange that these professionals can't do basic things that the manager wants from them. 

Now if we were attempting to pass the ball more, if we saw our midfield players make attacking runs and we saw a more progressive style being attempted but it wasn't always working, that would then indicate it's down to the players following instructions and not being good enough to implement it perfectly. But if we're honest we aren't seeing that. 

I think we are seeing the players following instructions and not being good enough to fulfill them.

Bruce is asking attacking players to play defensive roles and they arent very good at it

[DCJonah]

I question wether all January signings were Bruce signings. I would imagine, as with Sherwood, these signings were made by more than just the manager and Bruce was part of the team that signed off on them. 

Because if these were truly the players he had his heart set on, it blows my mind how badly he's got it wrong with them. 

[srsmithusa]

For all those supporting Bruce because he couldn't get coaches in mid season.... Remy says hi.  

Time to change 

[VillaChris]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I question wether all January signings were Bruce signings. I would imagine, as with Sherwood, these signings were made by more than just the manager and Bruce was part of the team that signed off on them. 

Because if these were truly the players he had his heart set on, it blows my mind how badly he's got it wrong with them. 

We have signed some good players both last summer and window.

Chester and Kodjia, no arguments there.

Jedinak- win/loss ratio says it all for me.

Taylor, no frills but solid enough.

Lansbury and Hourihane, heartbeats for their previous clubs in midfield and had scored 6 apiece. So far one goal between them which might give you a clue they're not being utilised properly.

Bree- seems highly rated but don't know a huge amount. I think it's being made easy for Bruce to continually select Hutton by the Holte treating him as some demi god this season.

Johnstone- could've picked up a better keeper but he's still kept a decent number of clean sheets.

I don't think we're far away in defence but attack lacks width and far too relaint on Kodjia to do stuff while central midfield seems to be the graveyard for every single villa manager since Milner left. Amazed no manager has cracked that area.

[sheepyvillian]

45 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I question wether all January signings were Bruce signings. I would imagine, as with Sherwood, these signings were made by more than just the manager and Bruce was part of the team that signed off on them. 

Because if these were truly the players he had his heart set on, it blows my mind how badly he's got it wrong with them. 

If this is the transfer policy, it's little wonder we're in the state we are. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Well no that's different, telling a team to play like Peps Barcelona would require players of that standard to match it, however teams could still try and play the same way with it not getting the exact same results. That's down to talent. That would be players following managers instructions but not always successfully implementing it correctly or making errors due to them not being good enough. 

We're talking about the simple difference of passing on the floor and hoofing it forward. Or a midfield player sitting in his own half rather than playing in an advanced position. 

Like I said, it seems strange that these professionals can't do basic things that the manager wants from them. 

Now if we were attempting to pass the ball more, if we saw our midfield players make attacking runs and we saw a more progressive style being attempted but it wasn't always working, that would then indicate it's down to the players following instructions and not being good enough to implement it perfectly. But if we're honest we aren't seeing that. 

Well said, my man .

[New_Jersey_Villa]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Well no that's different, telling a team to play like Peps Barcelona would require players of that standard to match it, however teams could still try and play the same way with it not getting the exact same results. That's down to talent. That would be players following managers instructions but not always successfully implementing it correctly or making errors due to them not being good enough. 

We're talking about the simple difference of passing on the floor and hoofing it forward. Or a midfield player sitting in his own half rather than playing in an advanced position. 

Like I said, it seems strange that these professionals can't do basic things that the manager wants from them. 

Now if we were attempting to pass the ball more, if we saw our midfield players make attacking runs and we saw a more progressive style being attempted but it wasn't always working, that would then indicate it's down to the players following instructions and not being good enough to implement it perfectly. But if we're honest we aren't seeing that. 

This really is an excellent summation.

Would anyone care to take a punt on examining the match against Blackburn, given the team selection and where the individuals were asked to play and enlightening me on how exactly we intended to score a goal, other than relying on Kodjia magic, which Bruce has said countless times we need to rectify?

After reviewing the 11 minute highlights on the website (I'm only able to listen to the game via radio, so can't actually watch it live) we managed a total of 2 shots, one was typical Kodjia and the other was a Lansbury free kick, both in the first half.

To be fair, if it wasn't for Baker's terrible pass the game would have probably ended 0-0, which still doesn't excuse the fact that it seems if our guys have the ball for more than 0.5 seconds they have to hoof it or when they try to pass it went right back to the opposition.

While not an authority on the subject, by my logic when playing 4-4-2 you expect for the most part, your wingers to be running at people down the flanks and then trying to get crosses in from the byline, so who does Bruce select for this role? Lansbury on the left and Bacuna on the right???? 1 who's probably never played left wing in his entire professional career and has very little pace and the other who just isn't very good, or a winger either. Now I could at least see some sense in this if he'd selected Amavi (Pace) and Adomah (An actual winger) for the wings, but he didn't.

I might be blind, but I'm just not seeing what our plan/style actually is, it's one thing to be able to see what's being attempted and us just not being successful at it, but in all honesty all I'm seeing us attempt is HOOF and hope Kodjia does something incredible, which I'll go out on a limb and say isn't working as intended.

It's incredibly worrying that 4 months after he was able to make his own signings that there are zero signs of improvement in performances. In fact I'd even go as far to say we've regressed in some instances as there are basic mistakes creeping back into our game, just not all of them are being punished like they were in Jan/Feb.

[DaveAV1]

5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

If this is the transfer policy, it's little wonder we're in the state we are. 

Perhaps it indicates the type of players we want and the style we'd like to play. It would therefore indicate that if the manager can't or won't implement that style then perhaps the next move is to find someone who will.

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Well no that's different, telling a team to play like Peps Barcelona would require players of that standard to match it, however teams could still try and play the same way with it not getting the exact same results. That's down to talent. That would be players following managers instructions but not always successfully implementing it correctly or making errors due to them not being good enough. 

We're talking about the simple difference of passing on the floor and hoofing it forward. Or a midfield player sitting in his own half rather than playing in an advanced position. 

Like I said, it seems strange that these professionals can't do basic things that the manager wants from them. 

Now if we were attempting to pass the ball more, if we saw our midfield players make attacking runs and we saw a more progressive style being attempted but it wasn't always working, that would then indicate it's down to the players following instructions and not being good enough to implement it perfectly. But if we're honest we aren't seeing that. 

So you really think Bruce is watching games like Blackburn, thinking "Yes, this is how I want us to play" and then speaking to the media and absolutely slating the way we play? Really? Because that's  the point I was arguing.

 

Also, players hoofing the ball rarely come from specific instructions to hoof it. It's usually a lack of options and an inability to be calm under whatever pressure they're under.

I'm not absolving Bruce of blame here. In fact I'm specifically blaming him.

What I'm arguing against is the original suggestion that we are currently playing how he wants us to play, regardless of results, and despite the manager specifically saying on many occasions that he's not happy with how we played

Edited May 3, 2017 by Stevo985

[TrentVilla]

32 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

So you really think Bruce is watching games like Blackburn, thinking "Yes, this is how I want us to play" and then speaking to the media and absolutely slating the way we play? Really? Because that's  the point I was arguing.

 

Also, players hoofing the ball rarely come from specific instructions to hoof it. It's usually a lack of options and an inability to be calm under whatever pressure they're under.

I'm not absolving Bruce of blame here. In fact I'm specifically blaming him.

What I'm arguing against is the original suggestion that we are currently playing how he wants us to play, regardless of results, and despite the manager specifically saying on many occasions that he's not happy with how we played

I think that is clear and fair enough and to a large extent I agree.

For me though despite this there are growing question marks about the way we are playing and we are using Houriane and Lansbury.

Those players are shadows of their former selves at their previous clubs and aren't playing in anywhere near the same sort of attacking forward minded mentality.

That comes down to Bruce for me and it's a worrying issue because he has signed better players, players capable of  passing the ball and for some reason they aren't doing it.

So I agree I don't think Bruce is instructing them to play how they are but and this is the crux for me, I'm not sure he is able to instruct them to play the way we probably need to.

The football we've played these last few months won't get us promoted.