DaveAV1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Is it necessary to resort to exaggerations like "Bruce the messiah" who has even closely alluded to that. I am not happy at all with the standard of football on display.....But i am not going to speculate at this stage that all the problems lie with a manager that has been with us for 30 odd games on the back of such a demise. If you think that is no grounds for mitigation fine.I may resign myself to your thinking eventually, but I think its too soon ,sorry. I think one window is not enough to put this right. However, the powers that be will see things a lot closer, they will make their mind up. judging by some of the comments after yesterdays game, it seems many things will be looked at,even himself. Maybe one window isn't enough to solve all the problems, but surely it's enough to show some progress. There aren't many people who watch us regularly that think we have shown progress, or even any sign of a coherent plan developing since January. Unless of course the plan is to hoof the ball to Kodjia, even when he isn't playing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 30, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Just wondering. What were the good performances? 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: I'm not discounting past performance, in fact since none of us can see into the future you could say it's all we've got to go on. However I think his performance as Aston Villa manager, which is his most recent past, just hasn't given me any confidence he can suddenly turn it around. Just out of interest Stevo, and I'm not trying to score points here, which were the good performances? I considered not answering this, because all that's going to happen is I'm going to post some games where I thought we were good, and no matter if I'm right or not, a load of people are going to jump on them and claim they were shit performances. But seeing as I've been asked twice, off the top of my head, I'd say: Sheff W, Brighton, Cardiff, Bristol City, Fulham (h), Norwich Are ones that spring to mind when I scan down the results. I'm sure there are more, particularly from that first run we had before January, but I can't really remember a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 As poor as this season has been I really don't think we're far away. When most managers come into a job they usually bemoan poor defensive play and structure (even though we've given away some stupid goals this season we're still top 6 for keeping goals out) and lack of goals (we have a 20 goal season striker if he stays). So you'd think the combination of having a prolific striker and a back 4 that keeps clean sheets regularly would work and it did from late Feb to early April. The problems imo are yet again the midfield and our mentality. We have good midfielders at the club now who were heartbeats of their previous sides. Lansbury and Hourihane scored 6 apiece and generally all the play went through them. Yet SB can't resist playing them wide midfield, why????! And we come back yet again to a mentality issue that has plagued us all season. We score first and we usually win the game. We concede first and we usually lose the game. That is nowhere near good enough if you want to get promotion and our results have reflected that. We need to show much more fight next season when we fall behind in games particularly away from home. SB needs to sort this otherwise he'll be getting as long as RDM did. From what I've seen I'm not as confident as I was that he will sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: Just as a matter of interest how many games / time do you think it takes any manager turn this lot around? What, may i ask, was you expecting? When did you think, nah, he's not the one? nothing sinister, just interested. It's not so much a case of " turning this lot around in x amount of games" but the lack of any significant improvement in the playing squad or his inability to galvanise the club. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: I also think the idea he inherited a complete mess is way over exaggerated. If you look back at those first few games, we played some really good stuff. Rotherham, Huddersfield and forest were all games that we dominated and played much better than anything Bruce has served up. Late goal against forest and keeper mistake/luck stopped those two being wins. Good second half against Wednesday ruined by a goal keeping error also. We were struggling to finish chances and conceded some late goals but we created chances on a level Bruce could only dream of. He inherited a strong championship squad with a weak cm and a dodgy keeper. He was able to rectify that in Jan and has made little impact. I really don't think he inherited the mess some would like you to believe he did. Give me Bruce over RDMs garbage any day. How can one spend such a large amount of money yet somehow fail more than Sherwood? bruce has been x5 better than rdm to you point he inherited a strong team with a weak cm and dodge keeper. How about the main point? This team won a miserable ONE game all season. Confidence was completely shot to pieces and couldn't defend for toffee. i accept some people don't rate Bruce fair enough, but to say he didn't inherite a mess is completely untrue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 We are a million miles away from ANYTHING resembling a team that will compete and challenge for the top positions next year. slow, lethargic, turgid football does not suit this division, but that's what we play, it's what the manager wants. it's time to cut our losses, thank him for steadying this ship but now look for somoeone progressive, who can move us forward. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 57 minutes ago, andyh said: it's time to cut our losses, thank him for steadying this ship but now look for somoeone progressive, who can move us forward. Who exactly have you in mind? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Get Harry Redknapp in a) he is a brilliant attacking manager 2) it would be so funny to nick him from blues just when they thought their future was brightening up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 8 hours ago, TRO said: Well the stability, i think is relating to the manager and backroom and some degree the players, but every club changes them, just the numbers vary. Just being devils advocate. Its funny how Bruce can coach Jedinak, Kodjia, Baker, Hutton,Taylor,Chester in to decent performace.....but allegedly can't coach the rest. You make the point perfectly - he's okay with the defensive players. ( I don't see how he has coached Kodja ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 5 hours ago, TRO said: Just as a matter of interest how many games / time do you think it takes any manager turn this lot around? What, may i ask, was you expecting? When did you think, nah, he's not the one? nothing sinister, just interested. I think the concern is less to do with 'turning it around' and more to do with us not putting in one single decent convincing performance. Its the performances that are causing the massive disenchantment, and most would say it's not unreasonable to have had some - even one ! - in all those games. Pretty much every side we've played has done so ! Against us ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I considered not answering this, because all that's going to happen is I'm going to post some games where I thought we were good, and no matter if I'm right or not, a load of people are going to jump on them and claim they were shit performances. But seeing as I've been asked twice, off the top of my head, I'd say: Sheff W, Brighton, Cardiff, Bristol City, Fulham (h), Norwich Are ones that spring to mind when I scan down the results. I'm sure there are more, particularly from that first run we had before January, but I can't really remember a lot of them. You are dead right ! As you say it's all opinions but I saw all those games and in none did we produce more than a single half of a decent performance (IMO ), and I wouldn't say we managed that much in three of them. Brighton away in particular is assuming near mythical status - with some - but I watched it back a week or so ago and really we play well for the last half hour. I can add others where we've done well in bits, Wigan away being my ' pick' because it said it all - only when he made the subs and switched to an attacking style did we come alive- but the approach was quickly buried. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I considered not answering this, because all that's going to happen is I'm going to post some games where I thought we were good, and no matter if I'm right or not, a load of people are going to jump on them and claim they were shit performances. But seeing as I've been asked twice, off the top of my head, I'd say: Sheff W, Brighton, Cardiff, Bristol City, Fulham (h), Norwich Are ones that spring to mind when I scan down the results. I'm sure there are more, particularly from that first run we had before January, but I can't really remember a lot of them. Thanks Stevo, it's all about opinion as you say. So I won't rise to the challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 4 hours ago, terrytini said: You are dead right ! As you say it's all opinions but I saw all those games and in none did we produce more than a single half of a decent performance (IMO ), and I wouldn't say we managed that much in three of them. Brighton away in particular is assuming near mythical status - with some - but I watched it back a week or so ago and really we play well for the last half hour. I can add others where we've done well in bits, Wigan away being my ' pick' because it said it all - only when he made the subs and switched to an attacking style did we come alive- but the approach was quickly buried. What I've noticed this season is that we generally get worse in the second half. I don't know who does the halftime team talk, but I wish they'd stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: What I've noticed this season is that we generally get worse in the second half. I don't know who does the halftime team talk, but I wish they'd stop! I suspect Lescott. He comes in, tells them the game is half over and should be a weight off their shoulders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Give me Bruce over RDMs garbage any day. How can one spend such a large amount of money yet somehow fail more than Sherwood? bruce has been x5 better than rdm to you point he inherited a strong team with a weak cm and dodge keeper. How about the main point? This team won a miserable ONE game all season. Confidence was completely shot to pieces and couldn't defend for toffee. i accept some people don't rate Bruce fair enough, but to say he didn't inherite a mess is completely untrue. See this is the kind of exaggeration I'm seeing. Confidence was completely shot, yet 2 games prior to being sacked we fought back with a decent 2nd half performance to get a point against a team that could end as champions. That doesn't strike me as a team whose confidence was completely shot We couldn't get a win, you're correct but look back at some of those games. Huddersfield we should, not could, should have been 4/5 up at half time. We concede a lucky deflection from the keeper kicking it straight at their forward. Forest, absolutely hammered them for periods, conceded a poor late goal. RDM had flaws, but to exaggerate it as a complete mess is just false IMO. The forest and Huddersfield games, we haven't come close to looking that attacking under Bruce. And while we couldn't get a win we didn't lose much, which amazingly, this myth that Bruce has made us harder to beat has now appeared. Again a complete exaggeration on what he inherited. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 10 hours ago, TRO said: He inherited a strong championship squad......nah. Up to the January window I thought he was doing a good job with an unbalanced squad. As everyone seems to agree on we had no midfield and so hoofing it was acceptable. Then in January he let Gestede and Ayew go. Not necessarily bad business, although I think he could have got more out of Ayew. However the problem was the timing, with Kodjia away at the AFCON we were left very light up top, and we still are. I don't know the circumstances of the transfers but surely we could have delayed them until late in the window? Gestede at least was very early. Then he did some very good business in buying us a midfield. His signings on paper were very good and we were all very excited. The excitement didn't get to the end of the Forest match. However they were good signings and perhaps his mistake was to introduce them all at once and when they settled in and gelled all would be rosey. However the midfield didn't settle in because the hoofball has continued and the change in personnel has had no effect on the tactics. As a result the good players we have in the squad are ineffective and off form. Hogan particularly will probably need to google what it is when he finally receives a ball to his feet when facing the goal. Oposition managers must look at our squad with envy and think that lot could be a right handful. They must plan how to stop our midfielders playing and stop our strikers running them ragged. Then 20 minutes into the game they see that we're not going to attack them and they gain confidence. During the halftime break they change their tactics to be more attacking and we change nothing except to drop deeper and deeper. Very worrying for next season when they won't need the first 20 mins to work us out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 27 minutes ago, DCJonah said: See this is the kind of exaggeration I'm seeing. Confidence was completely shot, yet 2 games prior to being sacked we fought back with a decent 2nd half performance to get a point against a team that could end as champions. That doesn't strike me as a team whose confidence was completely shot We couldn't get a win, you're correct but look back at some of those games. Huddersfield we should, not could, should have been 4/5 up at half time. We concede a lucky deflection from the keeper kicking it straight at their forward. Forest, absolutely hammered them for periods, conceded a poor late goal. RDM had flaws, but to exaggerate it as a complete mess is just false IMO. The forest and Huddersfield games, we haven't come close to looking that attacking under Bruce. And while we couldn't get a win we didn't lose much, which amazingly, this myth that Bruce has made us harder to beat has now appeared. Again a complete exaggeration on what he inherited. Apologies for repeating this. RDM loses 3/11 = 27% SB loses 13/34 = 38% 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, DCJonah said: See this is the kind of exaggeration I'm seeing. Confidence was completely shot, yet 2 games prior to being sacked we fought back with a decent 2nd half performance to get a point against a team that could end as champions. That doesn't strike me as a team whose confidence was completely shot We couldn't get a win, you're correct but look back at some of those games. Huddersfield we should, not could, should have been 4/5 up at half time. We concede a lucky deflection from the keeper kicking it straight at their forward. Forest, absolutely hammered them for periods, conceded a poor late goal. RDM had flaws, but to exaggerate it as a complete mess is just false IMO. The forest and Huddersfield games, we haven't come close to looking that attacking under Bruce. And while we couldn't get a win we didn't lose much, which amazingly, this myth that Bruce has made us harder to beat has now appeared. Again a complete exaggeration on what he inherited. How is that an exaggeration DC? We won one game in 11, got absolutely humiliated against Luton town and were conceding goals for fun under rDM! Oh you mean the Newcastle game when we could gave been 3 nil down in first half if wasn't for some terrible finishing from Newcastle? We were far better away to Brighton and easily could have won that. it doesn't matter if we "should" of though, the fact is we didn't. The players didn't have the confidence to hold onto a lead under RDM. When Bruce came he had least a majority of the time, when we were leading we went on to win the game. Well we have differing opinions. Under RDM we were a shambles, just go visit some of the match threads just before he was sacked. We were a joke, even blose were mikes ahead of us at that point. Yet you say it wasn't an exaggeration? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Apologies for repeating this. RDM loses 3/11 = 27% SB loses 13/34 = 38% And what's the win ratio? whats the clean sheet ratio? Edited May 1, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: How is that an exaggeration DC? We won one game in 11, got absolutely humiliated against Luton town and were conceding goals for fun under rDM! Oh you mean the Newcastle game when we could gave been 3 nil down in first half if wasn't for some terrible finishing from Newcastle? We were far better away to Brighton and easily could have won that. it doesn't matter if we "should" of though, the fact is we didn't. The players didn't have the confidence to hold onto a lead under RDM. When Bruce came he had least a majority of the time, when we were leading we went on to win the game. Well we have differing opinions. Under RDM we were a shambles, just go visit some of the match threads just before he was sacked. We were a joke, even blose were mikes ahead of us at that point. Yet you say it wasn't an exaggeration? I'm not pretending it was good. We should have sacked RDM because we had ambitions of promotion. But I really don't think it was the mess it was made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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