Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[jim]

58 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Me either.

Me thrice

[sidcow]

38 minutes ago, paul1984 said:

How long, if at all do you think it will take for us to know about information from today's meeting?

I would think the press will start making up rubbish around 3.00 today which 80% of people will read and treat as gospel.
We should know the actual facts by around 4th of August 2018

[sne]

From MOMS

Quote

Lessons from the Premier League Club Tony Xia Looked at Before Aston Villa

MOMS reveals the club Keith Wyness and Tony Xia showed an interest in prior to buying Villa and asks is it promotion or bust?

By

 David Michael

 

After the last five seasons Aston Villa supporters have had to endure, it’s easy to understand that some fans want the new Tony Xia ownership narrative to run something like this:

Lerner is gone. A rich owner is in. Everything is ok now. DO NOT QUESTION THIS!

Xia Jiantong (aka Tony Xia) maybe billed as the new claret & blue messiah, but as some more cautious supporters and investigate journalists have suggested, he may also be the Wizard of Oz. While that is not necessarily a bad thing, it’s important to look behind the curtain.

Xia’s Approach

When the club announced that Tony Xia and the Chinese Recon group would be the new owners of Aston Villa, the original club statement, as well as getting giddy over the incoming owner’s financial wealth (that has since been muted and altered on the club statement), included claims of making Villa the most famous club in China and noted Xia ‘became a fan of Aston Villa many years ago’.

The ‘Villa fan’ emphasis and other subsequent statements like the aim to make Villa one of the ‘top three clubs in the world’, seemed unnecessary and unrealistic. Surely if you wanted to inspire the masses who take things at face value, just stick to the standard ‘Europe in five years’ protocol (copyright Faulkner & Fox).

Xia Jiantong (aka Tony Xia) admitted in a Chinese TV interview though, that he had been looking into eight Premier League teams to buy over the past two years, but since Villa has been up for sale publicly for two years now, if he had the wealth and was indeed a Villa fan of ‘many years’, why look elsewhere?

Probable Interests

Until the public move for Aston Villa, Xia and his associates’ perusing of the market for Premier League clubs has largely been under the radar; no doubt aided by non-disclosure agreements.

Were they the mysterious Chinese consortium that were interested in WBA last year and granted exclusivity?  One clue is that rather than paying the full amount upfront as WBA chairman Jeremy Peace had desired, the Chinese consortium sought a staggered payment schedule, which is exactly what Xia has offered to Randy Lerner. The Baggies deal is thought to have collapsed because of this, as well as not being helped by a drop in the Chinese share market at the time.

Team Xia perhaps also cast a fleeting glance at Swansea City too, who were on the market, as the public courtship by two known two American consortiums over the last year has proven. Swansea’s currently have major Chinese sponsorship connections with the Goldenway Global Group (GWFX), so you’d expect them to have been considered, although, whether the current Chinese sponsors would be a benefit or cause a conflict is unclear.

Proven Interest

One firm previous Xia link with a club that MOMS has discovered came when looking into a Chinese Consortium interest in Everton earlier in the year. A couple of phone conversations MOMS had with a Everton source last week, confirmed that Keith Wyness himself and a Chinese consortium had been looking into Everton earlier this year.

Wyness, who is expected to take a leading position on the new Villa board, is a former Everton CEO and apparently still owns shares in Everton, so his interest in leading Xia to the Merseyside club is understandable.

Any deal to buy out the current Everton owner Bill Kenwright outright would have been in the £200m ballpark, a figure that had previously put off the US consortium headed up by John J Moores and Charles Noell (who had also been interested in Swansea City).

Interestingly, in the end, Everton favoured a longer-term staggered deal with former Arsenal shareholder Farhad Moshiri, who reportedly sold his shares in the Gunners to the tune of £200m. Up to £100m of that has been reinvested into Everton for a 49.9 per cent stake in the club. He is expected to takeover entirely from Kenwright within the next two years.

TONY XIA MAYBE THE NEW CLARET & BLUE MESSIAH, BUT…HE MAY ALSO BE THE WIZARD OF OZ.

So did Xia fall short there or did he see Villa and the growing city of Birmingham as a better value opportunity, despite the gamble of needing swift promotion from the Championship?

Toffee Ideas

MOMS was informed that one of Wyness and the Chinese consortium’s specific interests regarding Everton was in the Football Quarter project in Liverpool, a regeneration space that would celebrate the city’s footballing tradition and was proposed by both the ‘Keep Everton in the City’ group and the Spirit of Shankly.

Wyness allegedly was keen to meet council officials, including the Mayor of Liverpool, to discuss the possibilities.

As we know, Xia studied design and landscape architecture at Harvard and his company Recon have a distinct interest in urban design.

There’s a distinct possibility that the concept of the Football Quarter in Liverpool sparked the idea of a similar venture in Birmingham, because packaged in the deal of buying Aston Villa, as the brochure originally selling the club (see below) details, is an additional 12 acres of land located half a mile from Villa Park.

Slightly smaller than the 16 acre site of Villa Park itself, it’s considerable real estate that would be an ideal size for such a development.

While the media has made a joke of a Villa ‘theme park’ for the sake of clicks, the venture would be a serious redevelopment programme, including local community benefits (including educational and renewable energy solutions), commercial opportunities, a football museum, improved match-day parking, fan zone potential for Villa Park events & concerts, and not forgetting more jobs in the area.

Check out the full prospectus of the Liverpool Football Quarter here to give yourself an idea of what could eventually happen in the Aston area.

Obviously, such a development fits into the long-term plans category, as does increasing the size of the stadium to 50,000 by redeveloping the North Stand. Realistically, both are a long way off though, as there are more pressing concerns.

Chinese Gamble

As any Villa fan will know, promotion is vital for any of the incoming Chinese owners long-term plans. When you compare the potential purchase of Everton to his eventual purchase of Villa, Xia’s getting a historical club of a similar size and standing at half the price due to its current Championship status. Plus, with the added bonuses of extra land and a stadium that can be expanded on its current site (while Everton perhaps needs a relocation).

Every season out the Premier League though for Xia, means a loss of major TV revenue and TV exposure of the club to the key Chinese market.

Three-year Test

It could be viewed, that the cost of purchasing Villa for any new owner was always going to be largely covered by the parachute payments over three years (in the region of £85m), but what happens if there is no sign of promotion after that period?

No matter how wealthy Xia is, Villa’s kudos and status would suffer considerably after three seasons in the Championship, interest from Chinese fans would be minimal and the financial gap between Premier League teams and Villa will have widened considerably. Xia’s long-term plans would frustratingly also be on ice.

This is why the next managerial appointment is one of the most important in Villa’s history.

Failure will not likely be tolerated and considering it would save Xia paying Lerner a further £30m odd, if Villa were promoted, in terms of cutting his losses, would the three-year mark  be time for Swiss-based Christopher Samuelson, who has helped broker the money side of the Villa deal for Xia, to prepare an exit plan for Xia?

If Wyness with his interest in Villa has been described to MOMS by our Everton source, as an “opportunist” – principally due to him backing the ’39th Game’ and his role in the attempted relocation of Everton to Kirkby, to a stadium that would have incorporated a Tesco supermarket – the former Everton CEO is at least regarded as a solid football man.

Samuelson’s mere presence in the Villa deal though, raises understandable alarm bells.

Cautionary Tale Reading

Samuelson has already been involved in a swift club exodus when promotion went begging, and there’s every chance that the ‘Fit and Proper’ tests will have their eyes firmly on him due to this fact and his previous connections.

As many Villa supporters will have read already, he’s previously been investigated for money laundering by the FBI and has been described as being in ‘the business of mass-production of offshore and dummy companies for his wealthy and super-wealthy clients looking to disguise the identities and secrete assets’.

Judging by this Guardian article his talents were very much applied in gaining Anton Zingarevich a controlling stake in Reading. Samuelson had previously failed in brokering a similar deal for Zingarevich with Everton in 2004. The Everton CEO at the time Keith Wyness.

The Swiss based financier Samuelson was then head of a body called the Fortress Sports Fund, which reportedly promised to invest £12.8m into Everton but failed to deliver.

As the Liverpool Echo wrote:

‘Paraded at an Everton AGM and introduced as a lifelong Evertonian, one doubting fan declared: “Who scored the winning goal in the 1966 FA Cup final?”

Clearly stumped, Samuelson stuttered: “Errr, I was a student in Munich in 1966.”

The promised investment proved equally as vague.

On December 22 2004, Samuelson said: “Cash transfers can take three or four days and I hope it is with Everton by Christmas.”

However the money had not materialised by January, and in February 2005, then chief executive Keith Wyness stated that the club had begun to look for other potential investors.’

Yes, Wyness and Samuelson go back a few years.

It’s what Samuelson and Zingarevich did at Reading that remains a cautionary tale for Villa.

After Reading failed to gain promotion in the 2013/14, missing out on the play-offs on the last day of the season, Zingarevich put his 51% share up for sale for just £1. The big catch was the new owner would have to address the £38m debt the club had racked up in recent years. Zingarevich himself had reportedly injected £25m up until that point and was obviously relying on promotion to access the Premier League TV revenue.

What happens if Xia spends big but Villa fail to get promoted within three years and the parachute payments run out along with his interest? It’s a question that should be asked of any new owner due to Villa’s new precarious position.

THE NEXT MANAGERIAL APPOINTMENT IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT IN VILLA’S HISTORY.

Big/Brutal Business

While as supporters we only want to think about promotion, nothing in football is guaranteed (see Nottingham Forest, see Leeds), so it would be good to have reassurances from the owner he’ll stick with us through thick and thin, at least in the short-term.

Lerner failed to have a proper contingency plan for not making the Champions League in his first few seasons, from which the club has suffered ever since. The stakes would be higher this time for the club when you see how the likes of Bolton, Portsmouth and Bradford have all free-fallen down the leagues from the Premier League (hence the need for Villa supporters to lock down Villa Park as an asset of community value) .

Xia proclaimed in his latest interview with CNN, that the ‘Aston Villa deal is pure business’. The question is – what kind of business?

If Villa don’t achieve the required success on the pitch, expect it to be brutal business, but if promotion is gained sharpish, with Xia’s takeover motivated by Chinese expansion into global football and coinciding with the current growth and modernisation of the city of Birmingham, it could be BIG business that is transformative for both the club and the area.

Also, if it all goes well, Villa will have saved Tony Xia from pretending he was an Everton fan for many years.

https://www.myoldmansaid.com/lesson-premier-league-club-tony-xia-looked/

Edited June 11, 2018 by sne

[DCJonah]

28 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Depends to what extent, most Bruce bashers stated we'd never even make the playoffs so by reaching the final he well and truly proved them wrong. 

Perception.

He didn't get promoted. That was all that mattered. 

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I would think the press will start making up rubbish around 3.00 today which 80% of people will read and treat as gospel.
We should know the actual facts by around 4th of August 2018

Well it seems wyness is now suing the club. Another day of excellent news. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

27 minutes ago, imavillan said:

back on thread...

Dr Tony Xia,

Please give us our football club back and sell up to somebody who cares and has some nous.

Tell me more about your inside information?

[AntrimBlack]

30 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Depends to what extent, most Bruce bashers stated we'd never even make the playoffs so by reaching the final he well and truly proved them wrong. 

Perception.

You are moving the goalposts. Just accept he failed.

[Hoof hearted]

2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

You are moving the goalposts. Just accept he failed.

I just said the exact same thing to myself. As far as I, and I presume the majority, are concerned it was promotion or bust for Bruce.

Time for Xia to show he has some teeth and **** him and Wyness into touch like a Nathan Baker clearence.

[imavillan]

13 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Tell me more about your inside information?

wishful thinking...

[Demitri_C]

Has to sell now for me. It's just one disaster after another. I'm stunned he authorised contracts of this nature as a championship club.

Absolute madness 

[bannedfromHandV]

32 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

You are moving the goalposts. Just accept he failed.

I accept that he failed to achieve the number one goal - I've never said otherwise.

Where you and I differ is that I can see the grey space between the black and white.

[hippo]

This guy is totally clueless with regards to running a football club. He is Carson Yeung II - Nothing good will happen under his reign. Hope he sells up very quickly 

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Depends to what extent, most Bruce bashers stated we'd never even make the playoffs so by reaching the final he well and truly proved them wrong. 

Perception.

I wanted Bruce in, then, in the early part of the season, out. Then in again. And I’ve been reasonably supportive, I certainly would say he did very well from October onwards. I am 50:50 whether I’d like us to keep him or not. I think there are areas he did a really good job.

But, for all that , whichever way you would like it to be, he failed. He didn’t slightly fail, or half fail. He failed. Those who said he would fail were, sadly correct.

Which goes for the good Doctor as well as things are today. I’m by no means sure we’ve even papered over the cracks....I’m not at all sure we’ve even found all the cracks. Xia may yet be both wealthy and our saviour, or he may be a disaster. Wyness may yet turn out to be hard done by, or a real chancer.

Who knows. But as we sit here today, with the evidence such as it is before us, the whole lot of them appear to have failed.

 

[hippo]

I think he be boiled alive in front of the holte end at the first home match ...............harsh but fair !

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I'm genuinely stunned at how people are turning Keith Wyness suing for constructive dismissal into the 3rd phase of Villapocalypse.

People sue for constructive dismissal ALL the time, even Martin O'neill did.

He may or may not have done things which made the club feel they could dismiss him for foul play.

No one knows. 

It is nowhere near as dramatic as fans are making it out to be.

Not sure how this is another "Xia can't run a club" beating stick. lol

Bottom line is he wants money, what's the surprise?

[TheEgo]

7 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Whereas the people who have full access to his financial position instead of just reading stuff in the papers seem to have been prepared to purportedly advance him 50 million quid.

Seems at odds. 

Come on, you can loan cash whatever your situation!! 

The rest isn't a reply to you per se, more a general post. 

 

Things we know without speculating. 

Villa late paying the HMRC tax bill and have had to loan cash in order to do so (loaner unknown)

Wyness suspended (now left be it sacked or resigned) 

Severe cash flow issues as borrowing on future payments will attest too (Parachute payment due) settling future sale income at a reduced rate to get it early etc

future wages and tax payments due in 2 weeks, yet to know how we pay these.

Companies house Filing on 7/6/18 suggests either new investment or converting debts to shares (will find out more tomorrow or Wednesday)

Those for me are the outline 'facts' the rest is opinion and speculation. So no it doesn't define Xia as a fraud or Wyness for that matter....

However if you do your research (i'll leave that to you guys, clue...already plenty on here in this thread) You can form more of an educated opinion on the above facts and it doesn't look good or read well for Xia I'm afraid. That said he may off the back of today's meeting announce a perfectly great plan to get out of this mess, lets see

it does all come down to opinions though at this stage and I don't see why anyone should be getting overly excitable or offended by anyone's opinion, as that's all it is. 

My OPINION is Xia has played free and lose with our club as the accounts suggest. We were putting everything on Promotion and we failed and here we are. At best he's been incredibly naive, at worst........we shall see.  I struggle to see how I will trust Xia again, however I'm smart enough to know things change. Right now, knowing what I know, I want him gone and I believe he wants to go, but won't purely down to A. Not wanting to lose cash and B. Pride and optics. He will be determined to not look a failure back home. So if he can sell and make it look like he wanted ths and has done well, he will jump at it (look at how he's sold himself since he bought us, it's all been about his significant successes, I 'think' sometimes at the expense of the truth. 

 

[PieFacE]

The guy needs to go. Worse than Randy. That takes some doing. 

[TheEgo]

6 hours ago, hippo said:

Not really. The loan company or bank may have charged a massive interest rate on the loan- even if they haven't a small % rate on £50m is a lot of cash.

My suspicion (and its no more than that) is Xia has no really money and purchased Aston Villa with a loan - he intended to repay some or all of this with the TV money when we got promoted - we now in the shite - because loan company wants repayments or the repayments are now incurring penalty rates of interest.

I don't believe he purchased us with a loan per se, neither did he use all his own cash though. He sold a business that didn't wholly belong to him (linked to parent company) and then used that (in agreement with unknown others) to buy villa with a plan of going up in year 1 and year 2 (worst case) There doesn't appear to be a plan beyond that and you can argue the initial plan was pretty f**ked

[hippo]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm genuinely stunned at how people are turning Keith Wyness suing for constructive dismissal into the 3rd phase of Villapocalypse.

People sue for constructive dismissal ALL the time, even Martin O'neill did.

He may or may not have done things which made the club feel they could dismiss him for foul play.

No one knows. 

It is nowhere near as dramatic as fans are making it out to be.

Not sure how this is another "Xia can't run a club" beating stick. lol

Bottom line is he wants money, what's the surprise?

Poor as he was Randy paid the bills - Xia .....well not so much !!!!

A 3 - 4m bill seems a big deal to Xia - hence the possible apocalypse ! 

[TheEgo]

Potential Breaking news (don't shoot the messenger its off a guy I trust on Twitter) off the back of today's meeting. 

Steady the ship

Implement cost cost cutting measures

player sales and fund the club short term

Buyer sought and sale will happen ASAP

Talks with buyers underway 

So as I said in other posts, I expect a sale and the Companies House filing to show outside investment OR debt to shares for a new owner (as Lerner did) Fingers crossed this is right.